COVID-19 Pandemic Committee on May 19th, 2020

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, the amounts of money that we have provided to community entities are in addition to the regular funding that we provide on an annual basis, and we trust the community entities to respond in the local circumstances. The member opposite must know that it is the community entities that make the best decisions based on their local circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Ms. Larouche, it's your turn. You may go ahead.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin by extending my sincere condolences to the loved ones of Captain Jennifer Casey.

Now, I'll turn to my questions. The Bloc Québécois has repeatedly asked the government to provide assistance to seniors. I have even travelled to Ottawa three times since the beginning of the crisis to question ministers. Last week, the federal government finally announced that seniors receiving old age security would get a $300 payment and those eligible for the guaranteed income supplement would receive an additional $200.

However, a lot of unknowns remain. Will the assistance be taxable or not? Will it be included in the old age security pension or come in the form of a refundable tax credit? Can the government provide some clarification and tell us when seniors will get their cheques?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to clarify any conditions that are not clear. It's a one-time, tax-free payment made to OAS and GIS recipients. This is in addition to a previous payment that was done through the GIS top-up, which, again, went directly into the accounts of low- and moderate-income Canadians, including seniors.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

There is another unknown. The government said that the assistance would be retroactive. If that's the case, will it go back to March 15? Will it cover three months, which would take us to mid-June? What happens after that? Could seniors still be confined this summer without the support they usually receive, perhaps for months? Do they have reason to worry, or can the government assure them that this assistance will continue beyond mid-June so they can meet their needs?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

I just want to make it clear: These are one-time payments. First, in April, low- and moderate-income seniors would have received the GIS top-up in their bank accounts. We saw that more was required as the pandemic was extending, so we have now provided another benefit to those getting the guaranteed income supplement and also to those getting old age security. It's a one-time, tax-free payment that will be coming soon. Just to put it in perspective, if you take a guaranteed-income-supplement couple and you take the two benefits the government has provided, it's $1,500.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Doesn't the government think that opting for a temporary measure sends the message that the problem is temporary and, therefore, that the situation facing seniors is acceptable in the current crisis?

Why is the measure temporary? Does the government intend to take more permanent action such as enhancing the old age security pension?

Seniors' financial circumstances certainly weren't acceptable before the crisis and won't be any more so after the crisis. Prices will keep going up for seniors as well, whether it's the cost of groceries, delivery services, home care, drugs or rent, and that's not all.

Will the government be keeping its election promise to raise the old age security pension?

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much again for giving me the opportunity to clarify any confusion.

The government remains committed to implementing the policies in our platform. However, at this time we are focused on providing support to seniors enduring the COVID-19 public health crisis. We provided financial support to seniors sooner through the GST top-up and the OAS and GIS payments. This provides support for seniors of all ages that is comparable for many, and is greater for the most vulnerable. This year we're investing over twice as much in financial assistance to seniors as we committed in our platform. That's $3.8 billion, compared with the $1.56 billion in our platform. Seniors needed our help, and we've taken action sooner and have delivered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Ms. Larouche, you have time for a very short question.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Does the minister acknowledge that, once the government increases the pension, it will also have to increase the guaranteed income supplement accordingly so no senior is penalized in 2021?

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The honourable minister, in 15 seconds or less, please.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

What I'm saying is that those who are on the GIS already or who get a GIS amount from the government did receive a top-up. Those who are on old age security and guaranteed income will be receiving this one-time tax-free payment soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We'll now go on to Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I've received an email from a commercial landlord in my riding of Dufferin—Caledon, and the email says, “Commercial rent relief is just a headache for people like me. Why do I have to apply? It's not my problem. The tenant needs to pay.”

Mr. Chair, why has this program been designed such that only landlords can apply, and if they refuse to apply, they can still demand the rent from their commercial tenants?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

As the member may know, the tenant and landlord relationship is one that has provincial jurisdiction. We decided to move forward in co-operation with the provinces, providing the lion's share of funding for a program that would allow us to provide support to small businesses and also to landlords to get through this time of crisis.

We're looking forward to providing more details on this program, recognizing that it needs to be part of our broader approach to providing loans and to providing wage subsidies and emergency response benefits for businesses and for people.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

That doesn't actually answer the question. By putting all of the burden on the landlord or all of the privilege on the landlord, whether they choose to apply for this rent subsidy or not, they are putting small businesses in this country in serious jeopardy. These are small businesses that have shut down their businesses and have lost all their revenue for what is now going on two months, and their landlord is saying effectively, “We're not applying for this program. Pay up.”

Why won't they change the conditions of the program to allow for tenants to apply directly for the rent? They could covenant or undertake to guarantee that they would use that money to pay the landlord.

When landlords are behaving badly, why are we not helping small business tenants?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned, we are working through the approach we have with the federal government tool, which is the mortgage system, of course looking to the provinces to be part of this as well.

We do know that there are other supports that are important. The emergency business account is particularly important. Over 600,000 loans of $40,000 have been applied for and approved.

We'll continue to work with small businesses. We are looking forward to take-up by landlords of this emergency rent program and would encourage that to move forward to support businesses and landlords.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am of course encouraging landlords in my riding to apply for this program. That is something I consider one of my duties as a member of Parliament. However, there are some who are clearly, based on this email, not going to do it.

My question for the minister is fairly simple. Will he change the program to allow for tenants to apply for rent relief if their landlord refuses to do so, yes or no?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we will always be looking at the programs we are putting forward in order to make sure they are working. We've made changes as we've moved along.

In this program, we have chosen an approach whereby we are actually able to get funding through the landlord. That will be the approach on this, but we will be open to looking at how we can make sure it works.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Right now, I can tell you it's not working. This is not one isolated incident. I receive emails and telephone calls on a daily basis from small businesses that are commercial tenants whose landlords are not applying for this program.

I'm asking, Minister, whether you will provide now some certainty that you will examine this, provide a timeline for when you will examine this, and provide an answer for these tenants so they can have some certainty. Is there a timeline for when you will look to change this program? It's been two months. They need the help now, not in another two months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind the honourable members to place their questions through the chair and not directly to the person they're asking.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, I'd like to thank the member. We're all trying to work hard to make sure that we support small businesses. The small business loan through the business account, as I mentioned, has been particularly important. We're looking forward to providing more details on this program that have not yet been fully disclosed and which, we hope, will help landlords and tenants work together to make it work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Mr. Seeback, you have 30 seconds for a very quick question, please.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'm asking again, what is the timeline for this commitment to relook at this program so these tenants can have some hope at the end of the tunnel? Getting into more debt is not the answer for them. Is there a timeline that you will look at for changing this program so that tenants can apply when landlords refuse to, so that their businesses don't go under?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, I do want to thank the member for his question and assure him that we are always looking to support small businesses. We're encouraging landlords to avail themselves of this program and encouraging them to work together with their commercial tenants to provide the relief.

Of course, provinces need to step forward as well, and that's why we recognize that we all need to work together to support these small businesses.