Declaration of Emergency Committee on June 14th, 2022

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you for the non-response, Minister—very helpful.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

We'll move to Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Minister, as you know, I represent the riding of Ottawa Centre, which has been referred to as perhaps ground zero of the occupation, right outside this building. It was not just Wellington Street. It was beyond Wellington Street, in all the surrounding neighbourhood that is around Parliament Hill. It impacted hundreds of businesses, not to mention the Rideau Centre, which I'm sure many of us have frequented. It's one of the largest shopping malls in this city, employing thousands of people. On the eve of reopening after the mandate of closure by the provincial government, they were forced to shut down for three straight weeks.

We saw a real impact. In fact, my office fielded many questions from workers and from business owners who were seeking help—one, to end the blockade and occupation, and two, to give them financial support that would sustain them through that period.

Can you speak to, from your analysis, the specific economic harm that you were seeing of that ongoing occupation and, if you had not ended that occupation by way of invoking the Emergencies Act, the harm it would have had on Ottawa's economy? Can you also talk about what was happening at Windsor and the impact on our economy across Canada, at the Pacific crossing, Coutts and other border crossings as well?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Naqvi.

I do want to say to you, as the member of Parliament for Ottawa Centre, that I think you and your constituents really were among the hardest-hit people by this illegal blockade and occupation. Senator Harder asked me why it was allowed to go on for so long. I know from conversations we've had that many of your constituents asked you that question as well. I think it's a really legitimate question.

I'd like to say to them, through you, that I really regret, deeply and profoundly, what they went through. I hope they will understand that the reason we acted carefully and thoughtfully, after the passage of time, was that we truly viewed this as a measure of last resort. These were actions that I firmly believe were the right thing to do. I believed it then. I believe it now, in hindsight. But they were actions that needed to be, and were, taken carefully and thoughtfully.

On the specific economic impact to the city of Ottawa, as you know well, the City of Ottawa has presented a report calculating just the direct effect to the city itself. They put that cost at $37 million. The Retail Council of Canada has calculated that losses just to the Rideau Centre, to which you referred, and the sales there were $3 million a day.

I've already cited Larry Andrade of Deloitte, who calculated that the damages suffered by businesses and employees during the occupation of Ottawa ranged from $150 million to $207 million. That was just Ottawa, so this was a very, very serious impact. And you yourself know very well the psychological and personal impact it had on so many people.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Naqvi, your time is up.

Members, we now move to three minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Freeland, I'd like to make a brief preliminary remark.

Earlier you told Mr. Brock that a judge would feel he was harassing you or the witness. Personally, I think a judge would tell you that that's enough and that you should answer the questions put to you. We'd thank you for that.

We're wasting our time here. You've been testifying for nearly an hour, but you're going around in circles. We asked you what was done before the Emergencies Act was invoked, but you didn't answer the question. You skated around it. We asked you why you waited so long, but you skated once again. Senator Carignan asked you if the United States had offered to send in tow trucks, and again you skated around the question. That's really disappointing, Minister.

I don't know how we're going to carry out the mandate the House of Commons has given us. We need information and documents, not a figure skating performance. With all due respect, I wish you would answer our questions.

I'm going to ask you one last time: can you tell us in 30 seconds what was attempted before the Emergencies Act was invoked?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

You've previously spoken with many of my colleagues and with officials from other departments.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I'd like you to answer the question, Minister.

Can you answer the question, yes or no? Do you know what was done before the Emergencies Act was proclaimed?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I was answering the question.

With your permission…

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You're still skating. I have a minute and a half left. I know you can skate for a minute and a half, but, as you can understand, that's a bit exasperating.

If the situation arose again tomorrow morning and there were roadblocks on Wellington Street, what would be done differently to prevent the situation from going on as long as the last time? Do you have a quick answer for us on that?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I hope the measures we took to address the illegal blockades ensure that those events don't happen again.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You hope that, and we all hope it too. What I understand is that there's no plan to change the situation.

One of your colleagues told us that, if it had to be done again, authorities would have intervened sooner and prevented the truckers from blocking Wellington Street.

What do you think of that? Why weren't they prevented from settling in last winter?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

You're asking a question about the measures that the Ottawa police took and what it did and didn't do? That has nothing to do with a decision by the federal government or the Minister of Finance.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

That was your answer to the earlier question, Ms. Freeland. You said you had been involved in discussions and that the state of emergency was declared as a last resort because it was necessary.

If it was necessary, and as a last resort, that's because you tried something else before that, or else, with all due respect, you didn't do much of anything.

If it was done as a last resort, what actions were taken as a first resort? What did you try first?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Fortin, once again, with all due respect, you asked a specific and detailed question about the measures the Ottawa police took, not about the powers of the Department of Finance.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Ms. Freeland, you'd win a medal if this were a skating competition.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Your three minutes are up.

Mr. Green, you have three minutes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you.

I have to say that I find astounding and perhaps somewhat a little bit embarrassing that the City of Ottawa was able to provide more quantitative economic impact analysis of the occupation than our federal government has of the borders across the country, but I digress.

On February 17 you stated that you spoke directly with the heads of major banks and the director of FINTRAC. Did the banks or FINTRAC express their support or opposition to any of the temporary measures in the order?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

On February 17, the order was in place. I'm looking at my timeline. I believe that my conversation with the bank CEOs was on—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Madam Minister, please. I just need an answer. Did they provide any opposition to the directions? Yes or no.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I want to be precise and not seem to confirm a date that is false.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

That's fine, fair enough. You're referencing notes. Can you share the notes from the conversations you had with them with the committee?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

These are not notes from the conversation. This is a personal timeline of conversations—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Did you have notes from the meetings with the heads of banks and FINTRAC, yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Let me say something that I think is appropriate for me to share concerning the meetings that I had with the CEOs of the major banks and that is two things.

First of all, before the invocation of the emergency measures, I spoke to Canadian business leaders, including some bank CEOs.