Evidence of meeting #10 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was police.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I was aware that they were considering it, but they didn't ask me personally. I was not personally consulted on that.
8:45 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
What was included or excluded was, in a sense, their own decision.
8:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Of course it was their decision and their authority, and I was not consulted on what they would put in their act.
8:45 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
There's an interesting simultaneous set of circumstances with the order being imposed and a change of police leadership in the police of jurisdiction.
How do you assess the role of the Emergencies Act and the change of police leadership in leading to what was a very successful police action?
8:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Senator Harder, that's a difficult question.
I think the actions we took in invoking the Emergencies Act and the measures that were introduced were necessary. Frankly, I think the principle of strict necessity is an important one. I believe very clearly that a state of emergency existed and that there was a very real threat to our national security, particularly in critical infrastructure, as a result of the actions of these protests and occupations.
I also believe that providing those new authorities did a number of things. I think it provided the police with the tools and resolution of challenges that they hadn't up until that point been able to overcome, but I also think it sent a very clear message to those who were engaged in that unlawful activity that the game was over and that there were going to be consequences for their continued actions. We saw that. We witnessed that. A lot of them just packed up and left. With respect to those who didn't, the police still had a job to do and they went out and did it. By the way, I will take this opportunity to commend them for the very professional way in which they did it.
8:45 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
I agree with that.
I have one last quick question. I just want to confirm with you, both from your police experience and then your ministerial role, that in your view it would be inappropriate for the police to ask the government to invoke the act. It is not for them to ask government what emergency measures ought to be invoked by the government.
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
No, I do not believe that would have been an appropriate thing for law enforcement to ask, and they did not ask. What they did is honestly answer our questions about the challenges they were facing. That information did inform, ultimately, our decision—
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
8:50 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you, Senator Harder.
We'll move to Senator White.
8:50 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thanks to the minister for being here today.
I have a couple of quick questions.
We talked about the invocation of the provincial emergency act, and the fact that I think maybe your words summarizing it had little or no impact. Did you have any discussions with them about going back to the well and adding some tools that you felt were missing from their original invocation?
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
No, Senator, I did not have that conversation with the province.
8:50 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
Do you believe they should have had the discussion? Obviously, it didn't work. Proportionality is an important part of an emergencies act, whether it's provincial or federal. Obviously, their tools weren't proportional to the challenge if they weren't actually having an impact on the challenge. Do you believe they should have given more consideration to the fact that it had little or no impact on the actual removal of the blockades?
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I believe that they acted in good faith, and they took the steps necessary and invoked the authorities that they believed were within their authority to enact under provincial legislation. I also believe there were a number of things that perhaps weren't available to the province that became our responsibility.
I would point out—and I know you're already aware of it Senator, as is this committee—that there were consultations with the premiers across the country, including with the Premier of Ontario, before we invoked our federal legislation and the Emergencies Act.
I think it was really a determination of a proportional and appropriate use of authorities at various levels of government. I think we had a shared commitment to bringing about a peaceful resolution, and we were both prepared to take whatever actions would enable that to happen.
8:50 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
Thank you for that.
In our discussions with the RCMP, we were told there was a plan in place to remove the convoy. In fact, we were told by the deputy commissioner that they believed that the plan would succeed in removing the convoy, blockade, or “fortressing”, as I've called it, in the downtown core.
Did you have an opportunity to review that plan prior to the invocation of the act?
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I did not engage, myself, in the operational responses of the police. I actually have a great deal of respect for the operational integrity and independence of the police to make the determination. They are governed by the rule of law, by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and my expectation is that their response would be effective and proportional.
What we did witness is that for a number of weeks the law enforcement response, not just here in Ottawa, but particularly here in Ottawa, had not been able to resolve those blockades of critical infrastructure in this country in a timely way. The blockades in Windsor, for example, went on for seven days. Ultimately, the police were successful in removing that blockade, but at an enormous cost not just to the economy of Canada, but to people. Workers who were idled when their plants were cut lost their hours. They lost their ability to support and feed their families
There was a very real impact by those blockades for those Canadians.
8:50 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
If I may, Minister, prior to invoking the Emergencies Act, wouldn't we have wanted to see what their plan was going forward? Obviously, their plan for the first number of weeks didn't work, but we were told by the RCMP, which is a federal agency, that they actually had a plan that they felt was going to work just days prior to the invocation. Do you know if the Minister of Public Safety, to whom there is a more direct link with the RCMP, had reviewed that plan to see whether or not...? In other words, did they believe this plan would be unsuccessful and that they needed to do something else? Do you know if anyone in the government saw that plan?
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I can only speak for myself, Senator. What I can tell you is that I did not see any evidence of a plan that would effectively end these illegal blockades and the enormous impacts they were having on this community and Canadians right across the country. I did not see evidence of a plan to effectively deal with that.
One of the most important things, and I keep on coming back to it, is that people say, “Well, getting the tow trucks there to remove those vehicles is a trivial matter”, but it was not. In fact, with those trucks—you referred to it as a “fortress” in this community—a somewhat fortified encampment was taking place at our borders. The inability of law enforcement to have those trucks removed from those locations very significantly impeded their ability to end those occupations and to remove that threat. Therefore, it was something that we felt we needed to do.
There were a number of other measures that similarly were necessary to designate certain spaces for law enforcement action, for example to deal with particular situations where people were bringing children into those areas, which made law enforcement's job really difficult and dangerous.
8:55 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
If I may add, because the chair is going to stop me, did you express concerns with the mayor of Ottawa, who was negotiating with people who had become involved with criminal activity, to allow them to take certain land and further fortress it to give up other land?
8:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
First of all, I did not have any conversations with the mayor about his negotiation.
However, I would make the observation that as a result of.... When I saw the document of what had been agreed to and what they had allowed in order to get the blockades and the protest activity out of certain areas, and to limit those only to Wellington Street and the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, it struck me as a bit of a challenge for law enforcement officers in their response, because that could be interpreted as the mayor's giving the protesters permission to be in that place.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I have a quick point of order. I'm looking at the Zoom screen, and it appears that perhaps the clerk and the French interpreter may still have their mikes on, which might be causing us some of the feedback. There's no mute icon on their screens, unless there's no mike attached to it.