Evidence of meeting #14 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officers.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Sloly, in the first round of questions, I asked you a question about tow trucks and towing. If I understood you correctly, at the outset there was no urgency about towing the trucks, and when it became useful to do it, there were too many of them. Did I understand correctly?
7:30 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
No, sir. It was always urgent to try to make sure that we could maintain the emergency lanes that were negotiated, but the volume and capabilities and circumstances that we found very early in the morning on Saturday precluded that, until we had the sufficient scale of resources that we were just talking about.
7:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Did you ask the tow trucks to come and tow the trucks? Did you say, at some point, that you needed tow trucks?
7:30 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
The operational plan included the securing of heavy tow trucks and other tow trucks to support our traffic operations. They were available. It was the ability to deploy that particular technique in the theatre, which quickly developed, that did not allow us to do it, particularly in the red zone. We did tag and tow trucks, including large trucks, throughout the days and weeks that followed, just not in the embedded red-zone areas.
7:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Why did you not demand that the tow trucks get the trucks out of the red zone? You told us earlier that there were children there and that could have added to the safety problems. It seems to me that you could have called in social services to come and get the children. None of this was tried, if I understand correctly. You were waiting for the 1,800 officers.
7:30 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I appreciate the question. It's hard to follow the track of all these multiple events.
As soon as we became aware of vulnerable children and other vulnerable persons within the red-zone areas and across the theatre, we were in contact with and in coordination with, on a daily basis, the appropriate agencies, including Children's Aid services. We also provided them with as much information as we could around the threats in those areas, and sought their advice.
Ultimately, it was too great a risk to go in and tow a truck, with the hundreds of trucks, the thousands of protesters, and the capabilities that we were seeing locally and across the country. We had to balance a scale of risks against a potential scale of rewards. Not until we could get the level of resources and the supports from the other parts of civil society were we able to do that safely and successfully.
7:30 p.m.
Bloc
7:30 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
It was on February 7, sir.
7:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Right. At what point did the 1,800 or 2,000 officers arrive in Ottawa?
7:30 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
To be clear, even before the arrival of the main convoys here in the city, we were receiving additional resources. Those resources ebbed and flowed, depending on pressures across the country and the province.
After the February 7 request, we then met with our main partners, the OPP and the RCMP. We increased the integration of those operations, particularly around planning and logistics. It was at that time, between February 9 and, say, 11 and 12, when that integration level kicked in, that we started to see a greater inflow of resources from across the province and the country.
7:35 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you, Mr. Fortin. Your time is up.
Mr. Green, you have three minutes.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you.
In my first round of questions, I perhaps danced around what I wanted to get to the heart of. Looking at this event and how it took place, looking across the country, you seem to be the only person in senior leadership who took accountability for what happened.
I'm going to put some very direct questions to you.
I'm going to reference a letter from the police union president, Matt Skof, on September 10, 2020, who stated that you “lost the room” and that you “inflamed the workplace”.
Did you at any time during the lead-up to the occupation have a challenge in the morale of your officers to rise to the size, scale and scope of the crisis due to some of the interpersonal HR issues you might have been facing with the police?
7:35 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Thank you, sir.
I don't know any police chief in this country or anywhere else in North America, or, quite frankly, in the Five Eyes countries, who doesn't have a morale challenge with their police officers. That has been increasing year over year, decade over decade. That is not unique to the city of Ottawa.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
With specificity, the challenge that I have is that you stay the course; on February 15 you resign, and on the 18th, it's done. You stay on until after it's called, but then you resign within 24 hours. Did you at any point in time receive political pressure from your board or from the association or any other external factors? If we were to FOI emails, would we see from the mayor or from the police chair pressure on you to step down, to be the scapegoat, to perhaps pave the way for a fresh start for somebody else?
7:35 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
There are many people who have theories around why I resigned. I've stated very publicly here that I resigned primarily for public safety reasons. There was declining trust in my organization and, implicitly, declining trust in me, so I took myself out of the equation once we had put in place the integrated operational plan to bring those resources to bear to safely and successfully end this. Sir, I will tell you, there was a highly politicized element.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
7:35 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
In every major event I've ever been involved in locally, provincially, nationally or internationally, these events draw high political pressure from all ends.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
7:35 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Yes, I did.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Did you receive pressure from the police association to step down?
7:35 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
In this event, no, sir, I did not.
7:35 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
How would you reference your relationship with the police association?