Declaration of Emergency Committee on Oct. 6th, 2022

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Fortin, you have five minutes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Sloly, you told us that the proclamation of the Emergency Measures Act was useful. At least, that is what I understood. But I would like to know whether that measure was necessary.

[Peter Sloly]

Thank you.

To understand the distinction, it was very helpful for the time that I was in office and that I could observe as chief of police. I can't speak to whether it was needed.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

After you left, Wellington Street was cleared. I know that all sorts of events happened elsewhere, but let's focus on Ottawa. Since you were then the chief of the Ottawa Police Service, I will not ask you questions about what happened in Alberta or elsewhere in Ontario.

Here in Ottawa, on your watch, there was the problem of Wellington Street, which was blocked. You said you had asked on February 7 to be sent 1,800 officers. If I understood correctly, they all arrived on or about February 12.

[Peter Sloly]

I'm sorry. Those officers did not arrive on February 12. They started to arrive over the course of the time that I was in office. The vast majority of them arrived after I left office.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Right. So a certain number of them arrived.

You said that you could not tow the trucks, because you were afraid of safety problems. You also did not remove children and vulnerable persons. I did not really understand why you did not do that, but I imagine it was, again, for safety reasons. You then resigned from office, and Wellington Street was subsequently cleared.

When the police cleared Wellington Street, was it according to the plan you had developed while you were in office, or was it completely different?

[Peter Sloly]

No. It was a plan that we had been developing from before the arrival of the convoy events in the city all the way through until my last day in office. There was only ever one plan.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Right. So that plan, that you had developed from the start, is the one that was followed to evacuate Wellington Street. It worked, as we could see: two or three days later, everyone had left.

How was the Emergency Measures Act useful for carrying out your plan?

[Peter Sloly]

I can speak only to the days I was in office, probably less than 48 hours while the federal Emergencies Act was in place. I can reference, as previously—I think it was to Mr. Harder's question—the additional capabilities to swear officers in from out of province to be more quickly deployed into the theatre, and the ability to access resources like tow trucks more consistently and predictably.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

The police had arrived and were in place. You told us that they had started to arrive before you submitted your resignation and that they continued to arrive for a while after that. I don't know on exactly what date they were all there, but your plan was carried out and it worked. The additional police arrived and that is actually how the street was cleared.

I find it difficult to understand in what way the Emergency Measures Act was useful and why, as Senator Carignan asked you earlier, you left your position. It seems that everything you wanted happened. You were the hero. You could have cleared Wellington Street and then said the job was done, but you left. Honestly, that bothers me. I wonder why things happened as they did. I do not understand. It does not seem rational. Obviously, though, you are a rational man. I may not be getting it in all the detail, but I would like to get it so I understand what happened better.

You are a man of experience and you have the skills to manage this kind of situation. The situation was difficult, but still, it was an exciting challenge for a man of your calibre. How did you come to leave your position? You had a plan that was being carried out. All of a sudden, no one knew why, you left your position. You then let someone else carry out your plan and evacuate Wellington Street.

What happened?

[Peter Sloly]

I'll try to parse the question out of that, sir.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I would like to know why you left your position and let someone else carry out your plan.

[Peter Sloly]

Thank you. Again, I'll try to restate what I stated earlier. I appreciate your need for clarity. I'll do my best.

There were a wide range of reasons I considered a resignation, and there were a wide range of factors putting pressure on that. The singular one that I was focused on was public safety, which includes the safety of my members.

I've said it before and I'll say it again to you, sir. Anything that I could do, for any second that I held that office, to improve the likelihood of safe outcomes for the citizens of the city, including my service members, I was going to do. Literally the last thing I could do was to push the resources in to fully implement the plan that was ultimately successful.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Your time is up. I'm sorry.

Mr. Green is next.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you.

To carry on the discussion around pressures leading to the decisions, as a police chief I'm sure that from time to time you would deal with insubordination. Is that fair to say?

[Peter Sloly]

Yes, sir.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Do you ever have these things happen at a senior level? As you're drafting out a plan, is there a disagreement on style or substance? I know that in the media you talked about an elegant and beautiful plan not being available. Were there ever instances of insubordination within senior decision-making within your service?

[Peter Sloly]

Within the weeks of the...?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Yes, leading up to the occupation, in your time there.

[Peter Sloly]

I can tell you there were some incredibly stressful situations at all levels in the organization, and not just within my organization—across the theatre that this was taking place in—but yes, we had some incredibly contentious and challenging moments at all levels of the organization. There was only one occasion that I would say would even come close to rising to the level of the definition of insubordination. We were focused on public safety.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

One of the differences you talked about—and I'll just use this as a bit of licence.... When you talked about the paradigm shift and you referenced the infiltration of people with significant skill sets in the logistics, in supply and in planning the convoy, you referenced counter-intelligence the way that this was situated. In your opinion, would it not go beyond the threshold of being sympathetic to but actually mean a person is ideologically motivated by a cause when they cross that rubric from being a sworn officer into illegal civilian occupations?

[Peter Sloly]

I'm sorry, but just to be clear, the references to people who were former national security, military and police, they were former. They were retired, and they were not part of my police service—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

They were not in your service, but they're part of policing....

[Peter Sloly]

They're retired members, and they're now private citizens.