Declaration of Emergency Committee on Oct. 27th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I understand that Wellington Street was occupied, but let's go back to the first day of the occupation.

It took a few days, but once people had arrived, they were increasingly settling in. Earlier on, there was a discussion about hot tubs and barbecues. If it happened again, then one or two days after seeing that trucks were moving onto Wellington Street, what would you do to clear downtown Ottawa more quickly?

[Jim Watson]

Firstly, we would definitely close down Wellington Street ahead of time.

Second, if trucks were illegally parked, we would have them towed away, because there's no parking on that street. It's dangerous leaving a vehicle parked near the Parliament Buildings.

I think it would require being more proactive about closing off that street, because it's definitely the most important street in Canada.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Why didn't you, Mr. Watson? Why didn't you order the trucks towed on the first or second day?

[Jim Watson]

That's probably the most important question for our country, and certainly for our city. That's why I said that the police and the city had made a mistake by not closing the street ahead of time. However, when 20 or 50 trucks arrive in the space of an hour, it's hard for the police to respond.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Watson.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. Chair, I would like the record to note that I allowed the witness to finish his answer.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I understand that I've run out of speaking time.

Thank you so much, Mr. Green.

I'll give you the floor for three minutes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much.

It's my position that over the course of the commission, there's been quite a bit of historical revisionism in some of the testimony that's been provided. There has been some contradictory testimony provided at certain committee meetings here by our law enforcement agencies that have been involved, and the changing nature of the threat. This committee's mandate is to determine whether or not the threshold of a national security was in order, and at this point, I'm still unclear about that.

However, what I am clear about, regardless of the legal nature of the invocation of the act, is that there was a practical collapse of policing within the city of Ottawa. The Ottawa Police Service was wholly incapable and inadequate to meet the size and scale of the operation that was presented here.

Councillor Fleury, given that you have had primary contact with your residents about the impact and the nature.... Being a representative of the ward most impacted by it, I want to give you the opportunity to explain if your experience of the protest, and the information that you received from residents, was consistent with the OPS's communications about the convoy and, in particular, with reference to some of these reports that were perhaps framed by Rex Murphy, and some other ludicrous things.

Could you comment about whether, in your experience, it was just some girls and boys rolling into town to have a talk with the Prime Minister.

[Mathieu Fleury]

I hear a number of questions in what you're bringing up, and police jurisdiction is certainly an issue of discussion for us locally. The local taxpayers, who pay for the local policing of their city, were extremely preoccupied by what we locally call the “red zone”.

Ottawa police were extremely focused on this red zone, and on the periphery of the red zone there were us locals trying to—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Specifically, and appreciating the political nature of the question, is it your opinion that your characterization, your experience of the occupation, is consistent with the recent testimony of the OPS, given the nature of the threat?

[Mathieu Fleury]

I have not listened to every member. I continue my role as a councillor, and these meetings that you have here include hours and hours-long testimony, so I wouldn't be in a position to comment.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Is it your opinion that, given what you experienced, there was a legitimate threat, and even if certain legal aspects were available, the practical collapsing of functional police services under the occupation made it impossible for them to do their job?

[Mathieu Fleury]

I think there were certainly obvious errors that happened at the leadership level of the OPS, including allowing trucks to use non-truck routes and not explaining to the public and businesses in the area what the plan was.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Do you think there was a plan?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Your speaking time is over, Mr. Green. Thank you.

It's over to Senator Carignan now, for three minutes.

[Claude Carignan]

Mr. Mayor, I've been a mayor myself and was elected chair of the Union des municipalités du Québec's Commission de la sécurité publique. I'm therefore staggered to hear you say that invoking a state of emergency is symbolic.

I consulted the Ontario Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act, which says in subsection 5.1 (2) that the board:... shall identify and assess the various hazards and risks to public safety that could give rise to emergencies and identify the facilities and other elements of the infrastructure for which the minister or agency, board, commission or branch is responsible that are at risk of being affected by emergencies.

You are the mayor of the City of Ottawa, where there are public buildings, including the Parliament Buildings. There are demonstrations there on a regular basis. Do you have an emergency measures plan to respond in the event that things get out of hand during these demonstrations?

[Jim Watson]

Yes, Senator. We had a plan, the details of which were described by Mr. Ayotte, along with all the phases for the city's Office of Emergency Management.

The act is very clear on what constitutes a declaration of an emergency in a municipality and does not give the municipalities many powers.

[Claude Carignan]

Did your plan cover incidents that might occur during demonstrations in front of Ottawa's Parliament? Did your plan specify what these risks might be, and what were the measures you intended to take?

[Jim Watson]

It would probably be better for Mr. Ayotte to answer that, because he is responsible for...

[Claude Carignan]

The fact remains that you adopted that plan. When I was mayor, I adopted plans. You know whether or not you had a plan...

[Jim Watson]

Yes, absolutely, we had a plan. As you know, there are lots of demonstrations in Ottawa. There are also environmental events like tornadoes and flooding.

[Claude Carignan]

Can you provide us with a copy of the City of Ottawa's emergency management plan, which covers demonstrations and measures to be taken when they occur?

[Jim Watson]

Of course.

Would you like to add something, Mr. Ayotte?

[Kim Ayotte]

Yes, Chair, we can certainly provide our plan. However, the plan for demonstrations falls completely under police jurisdiction, and they're responsible for the response. It will be a combination.

Our emergency response plan is an all-hazards plan, which means that it includes demonstrations, and the police have the responsibility of developing the plans for responding to demonstrations. We don't necessarily have access to that, because it's an operational plan, and it might include public order and other types of measures. Obviously the public is not privy to that, in that there could be counter-plans to our plan. We have an emergency plan. There's a demonstration component to the emergency plan that falls under the jurisdiction of the police, and the police are responsible for that.

[Claude Carignan]

Okay, but it's not just a police responsibility. There are the employees at public works and at the roads department. You have to specify the role of each in the plan.