Evidence of meeting #16 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was police.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:55 p.m.
City Manager, City of Ottawa
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I only have 15 seconds. I can't answer the question in 15 seconds, but I would like to answer the question.
8:55 p.m.
Bloc
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Do we have agreement around the table that we can allow him to answer the question?
Okay. Please continue.
8:55 p.m.
City Manager, City of Ottawa
Mr. Chair, the answer is that the decision was made, based on the information Ottawa police had, to allow the trucks into downtown as a strategy. It was to basically allow them in for the weekend with the belief that they would leave after the weekend. That was the information we had going into the weekend. Once that happened, the trucks got entrenched downtown.
With the number of people we had, it was impossible to put tow trucks in that crowd and safely remove a tow truck without securing the area, as we did on the final weekend. Police, if you noticed, pushed them back and tow trucks came in behind police and took out the trucks.
There is no way you can safely—and there are a number of police officers on this committee—bring a tow truck into a crowd of tens of thousands of people and move those heavy trucks without police being able to secure those trucks and get them out.
Once we lost downtown and those were parked, it was impossible for us to get them out without having an incredible police operational plan with public order units to secure that area. They were backed up, front to back, very tightly. They had to pull them out. There was no way they were going to come out.
8:55 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Mr. Kanellakos.
Mr. Green, I'll take back the chair and give you five minutes of speaking time.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you very much.
Mr. Ayotte, I understand that before your newest role, you were the fire chief. Is that correct?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
That's correct.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
In the conversations within the integrated task force you had—the emergency coordinating body—were there any conversations about the jerry cans of diesel that were being brought in? Was that a concern for you?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
It was a concern for several people, primarily because they were bringing in lots of gasoline or diesel to a certain area. You want to make sure that it's being used for the purpose that it's supposed to be used for.
When you're thinking of a demonstration, there's always a possibility that those volatile liquids could be used for other things, like Molotov cocktails, or other types of weapons. You're never guaranteed that it's just going to be used to refill the....
That was the primary concern with the gas cans.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Just for the record, can you please refresh me on the name of the coordinating group that you put together after the emergency order was called?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Within the city we had the EOC, the emergency operations centre.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
That's the one. In that, when you were getting updates, I'm sure you would have received some information from police services as well...?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Yes. They were on our [Inaudible—Editor].
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Were there any conversations about ideologically motivated violent extremists and the potential for infrastructure within the city of Ottawa to potentially be a target?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Yes, but no information came forward with regard to that. If the police had that intelligence, we weren't privy to that intelligence.
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I think it's clear through testimony at the commission that they weren't even sharing it with each other.
From that perspective, when the incident happened in Coutts, when you talked about the progression of the emergency, as the perceived threat elevated, what was your response? For instance, we've identified that there were now jerry cans going into what was essentially a corridor and alleyway of the Prime Minister's Office, complete with a crane and a wrecking ball, and the House of Commons.
In your opinion, particularly as it relates to incendiary devices and this threat, when you found out about the threat for ideologically motivated violent extremists in Coutts—i.e., the weapons that were found embedded within the protests—did that change the tenor of your organizing and planning efforts?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
We tend to look at it from a risk perspective versus a threat perspective. The police will consider a threat perspective and we will look at it from a risk perspective.
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
First of all, we need to have the information to make a decision on risk. Unless we get specific information with regard to specific threats, then we can't identify what the risk is. We could only surmise and then look at potential risks. That's where you're looking at potential risks for gasoline or for diesel or—
8:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
In your opinion, were there potential risks present once the incendiary devices started to be transported into the area?
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Yes. Well, they weren't incendiary devices unless they became incendiary devices.
8:55 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
They were materials that could be used in incendiary devices.