Evidence of meeting #16 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was police.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:10 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Senator Harder. Your time is up.
Thank you, Mr. Watson.
Senator Patterson, you have the floor for five minutes.
8:10 p.m.
Dennis Glen Patterson Senator, Nunavut, CSG
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just have one question I would like to ask Your Worship.
Mr. Ayotte has told us that the city did not install barricades on the advice of the Ottawa city police. I would have thought that knowing that the convoy was rolling across the country, the barricades might have been a preventive measure to at least protect the parliamentary precinct.
I'm wondering—and maybe it's Mr. Ayotte I should be asking—if the city asked the police. What was the interface between the city and the police that led Mr. Ayotte to say that the city had advice not to install barricades? Could you elaborate?
8:10 p.m.
Mayor, City of Ottawa
I think, if you'd allow, Mr. Ayotte would have more detailed information than I would.
8:10 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Very early on when we established the emergency operations centre we also established a group, which is well known in the city, called the traffic incident management group. It has representatives from our traffic and public works...and from the police and our emergency operations centre. That group works together to come up with a traffic plan depending on the jurisdiction of the event.
If it's a police-led jurisdiction such as this was, then the police take the lead on whether or not they approve the closure of roads through the discussions with the TIMG, the traffic incident management group.
In this particular case, they did get together. They established the group. They had those discussions, and the police did not want to close the roads, because they wanted the flow of traffic to be allowed throughout the city.
8:15 p.m.
Senator, Nunavut, CSG
In hindsight, do you think that the city police gave you the right advice? It's always easier to be wise in hindsight. Could you have prevented a lot of congestion, especially in the parliamentary precinct, if barricades had been employed?
8:15 p.m.
General Manager, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Ottawa
Well, we certainly learned from following demonstrations such as “Rolling Thunder”, and on Canada Day, that once we closed the roads we had more control. In hindsight, yes, that was a mistake, or that was a decision that should have been made at the time, as we've shown through follow-up demonstrations.
8:15 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Have you finished asking your questions, Senator Patterson? You still have two and a half minutes left.
8:15 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
All right.
We will now begin the second round of questions. Every speaker will have four minutes.
Mr. Brock, the floor is yours.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Chair, and good evening, gentlemen. Thank you for your attendance today.
I mean no disrespect to three of you, but I will be focusing exclusively on Lord Mayor Watson.
8:15 p.m.
An hon. member
It's not “Lord Mayor”. That's only in Niagara-on-the-Lake.
8:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Whatever.
In any event, Mayor Watson, in preparation for your testimony today, I reviewed hundreds of pages of transcripts of your recent appearance at the commission. Some of the takeaways were that a number of counsel referenced documents to you, whether these be emails, letters or notes.
I got the impression, in reading your responses, that not every meeting you had with government officials resulted in a note. Would that be fair to say?
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Where do you place the priority as to when you feel it necessary to record conversations?
For instance, with the Prime Minister, with Minister Mendicino or with Minister Blair, under what circumstances is it appropriate for you to have an accurate recollection by reviewing a note as to what was said and discussed during a meeting, or at other times you simply would not prepare a note?
8:15 p.m.
Mayor, City of Ottawa
As you know, the apparatus within the Prime Minister's Office is quite extensive for providing—I don't know what the proper term is—a general summary of activities and phone calls and so on. We don't have that practice and we don't have that ability at the City of Ottawa.
In many instances, the calls are coming fast and furious on cell phones. For instance, when the premier first reached me, he called my cell phone from his cell phone. On another occasion I think I called his cell phone to ask for support. It was not a common practice to have that kind of note-taking at the municipal level.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay, that's fair enough.
Were any of the conversations recorded?
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
You made reference to many occasions where you'd have to take a look at your records to see whether or not a response was made, perhaps to a letter to the Prime Minister or a letter to a minister.
If I asked you this question, would you comply and provide details of any and all notes, correspondence and briefing materials that you have not already supplied to the commission counsel?
8:15 p.m.
Mayor, City of Ottawa
According to our lawyers, everything that was asked for has been delivered to the public inquiry.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm not asking what was asked for.
If there is any other material relating to your involvement with the Prime Minister and any minister at a federal level, and if there is anything outstanding that was not requested by commission counsel, will you provide that to this committee?
8:15 p.m.
Mayor, City of Ottawa
To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Brock, there is no other information. We scoured emails and correspondence, written and electronic. It was all provided to the inquiry.
I'm not aware of anything that was held back. We'd have no reason to hold back any information.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I want to circle back to Senator Carignan's questions to you about the utility of having the federal government engage in mediation. I have a very limited amount of time.
Would you agree with me that a precedent has been set by the federal government—by numerous previous prime ministers, including our current Prime Minister—that from time to time, with protests on and off the Hill, the prime minister or members of his cabinet have spoken to those protesters?
Would you agree with that?
8:20 p.m.
Bloc