Declaration of Emergency Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I defer to the comments made by my colleague regarding the legal opinion.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

He's deferring to you.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

As for the legal opinion, honestly, if you're asking for my opinion as a member of cabinet when those discussions took place, I'd say that I was personally convinced, in light of the discussions with law enforcement, be it the RCMP, the RCMP commissioner or others who might have something to add—

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I'm going to interrupt you, if I may, because we don't have much time.

I want to clarify that, in her testimony, the RCMP commissioner said that she hadn't recommended invoking the Emergencies Act. I wouldn't want you to waste our time on that.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I don't want to waste your time either, but you interrupted me before I could say what convinced me. At that time, we weren't reasonably certain that we wouldn't see an increase in the number of violent demonstrations, like the ones in Coutts, Alberta, and at Ambassador Bridge.

I would remind you that, during my discussions with the Premier of Ontario, the province hit hardest by illegal activities—

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Minister, there are only a few seconds remaining.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

—he was absolutely in favour of invoking the Emergencies Act.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Are you telling me that the Emergencies Act was invoked on a preventative basis in case other events were to occur?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

No, that's not what I said.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I trust your intelligence and I think that you invoked the act because you were convinced, in good conscience, that it was the right thing to do.

I'm asking you to tell me what happened, because our committee has the duty to understand. However, no one wants to tell us what happened.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

The explanation has been provided. I don't want to change the forum, but a number of ministers and senior public servants testified under oath before the Rouleau commission, for hours, at hearings that were broadcast live.

The Court of Appeal for Ontario judge determined that the measures taken were justified and legal.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Justice Rouleau executed his duty based on your legal opinion, which we aren't able to see. Even asking for documents to be translated—

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Fortin, your time is up.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Green.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you.

Minister LeBlanc, you opined on the scope of this committee, our responsibilities and the timelines we've taken on ultimately coming to, hopefully, some recommendations in the near future, yet the Rouleau commission accorded you 12 months to respond and that deadline has passed. Why?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

It's because, as I said—I will have detailed responses as is appropriate, of course, to the commission's recommendations—in light of the Federal Court decision, we wanted to ensure that the government response would take into account the trial decision, and we wanted to ensure that, as we were responding to those recommendations, it also would be done in a way that would be consistent with the government's decision to go to the Federal Court of Appeal on that decision. But for that court decision, we would have done it last week or this week. The good news is that I'll be happy to do it next week.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

In part of that report, will you provide an explanation for the changing nature of your definition of a threat to the security of Canada, as is accorded under section 2 of the CSIS Act?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

It's an issue that the commission raised. It's an issue that I know has been discussed at this committee. Our response, as I said, will detail the government's specific response to all of the recommendations of the Rouleau commission, including his suggestions around legislative changes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. Vigneault, have you undertaken any work at CSIS to provide input or memorandums or any kind of background briefing documents to cabinet relating to your organization's position as it relates to section 2 of the CSIS Act in accordance with the parameters set out for a threat to national security?

[David Vigneault, Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Madam Chair, we have done work on section 2. We have been doing work on different aspects of the CSIS Act for years. When the government comes up with its decision on responding to the Rouleau commission report, we will be able to advise government and provide our analysis in due course.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Minister LeBlanc, I would put to you at this point that we still haven't heard, in my opinion, an adequate explanation from the government on its use of that definition under the act, and now we're hearing in other bodies that they've expanded the use and have perhaps provided some editorial expansion on the definition of a threat to national security. I can share with you that despite all of the meetings and all of the witnesses we've had here, I've yet to hear anybody clearly articulate the government's rationale for changing that definition. Will that be included in your response to the Rouleau commission report, specifically that point?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, I know that people will be very excited to see the government's response to the Rouleau commission, and the good news is that it's coming soon. As I said, we think Justice Rouleau did important, exhaustive work—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. LeBlanc, sir, please, we've been at this for quite some time. I am asking you a direct question. I am going to ask you to provide a direct response.

Will you—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I'm not going to tell you what's in the government response to the Rouleau commission. I am telling you—