Evidence of meeting #29 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
I defer to the comments made by my colleague regarding the legal opinion.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
As for the legal opinion, honestly, if you're asking for my opinion as a member of cabinet when those discussions took place, I'd say that I was personally convinced, in light of the discussions with law enforcement, be it the RCMP, the RCMP commissioner or others who might have something to add—
Bloc
The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin) Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I'm going to interrupt you, if I may, because we don't have much time.
I want to clarify that, in her testimony, the RCMP commissioner said that she hadn't recommended invoking the Emergencies Act. I wouldn't want you to waste our time on that.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
I don't want to waste your time either, but you interrupted me before I could say what convinced me. At that time, we weren't reasonably certain that we wouldn't see an increase in the number of violent demonstrations, like the ones in Coutts, Alberta, and at Ambassador Bridge.
I would remind you that, during my discussions with the Premier of Ontario, the province hit hardest by illegal activities—
Bloc
The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin) Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Minister, there are only a few seconds remaining.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
—he was absolutely in favour of invoking the Emergencies Act.
Bloc
The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin) Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Are you telling me that the Emergencies Act was invoked on a preventative basis in case other events were to occur?
The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin) Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I trust your intelligence and I think that you invoked the act because you were convinced, in good conscience, that it was the right thing to do.
I'm asking you to tell me what happened, because our committee has the duty to understand. However, no one wants to tell us what happened.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
The explanation has been provided. I don't want to change the forum, but a number of ministers and senior public servants testified under oath before the Rouleau commission, for hours, at hearings that were broadcast live.
The Court of Appeal for Ontario judge determined that the measures taken were justified and legal.
Bloc
The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin) Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Justice Rouleau executed his duty based on your legal opinion, which we aren't able to see. Even asking for documents to be translated—
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you.
Minister LeBlanc, you opined on the scope of this committee, our responsibilities and the timelines we've taken on ultimately coming to, hopefully, some recommendations in the near future, yet the Rouleau commission accorded you 12 months to respond and that deadline has passed. Why?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
It's because, as I said—I will have detailed responses as is appropriate, of course, to the commission's recommendations—in light of the Federal Court decision, we wanted to ensure that the government response would take into account the trial decision, and we wanted to ensure that, as we were responding to those recommendations, it also would be done in a way that would be consistent with the government's decision to go to the Federal Court of Appeal on that decision. But for that court decision, we would have done it last week or this week. The good news is that I'll be happy to do it next week.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
In part of that report, will you provide an explanation for the changing nature of your definition of a threat to the security of Canada, as is accorded under section 2 of the CSIS Act?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
It's an issue that the commission raised. It's an issue that I know has been discussed at this committee. Our response, as I said, will detail the government's specific response to all of the recommendations of the Rouleau commission, including his suggestions around legislative changes.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Mr. Vigneault, have you undertaken any work at CSIS to provide input or memorandums or any kind of background briefing documents to cabinet relating to your organization's position as it relates to section 2 of the CSIS Act in accordance with the parameters set out for a threat to national security?
David Vigneault Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Madam Chair, we have done work on section 2. We have been doing work on different aspects of the CSIS Act for years. When the government comes up with its decision on responding to the Rouleau commission report, we will be able to advise government and provide our analysis in due course.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Minister LeBlanc, I would put to you at this point that we still haven't heard, in my opinion, an adequate explanation from the government on its use of that definition under the act, and now we're hearing in other bodies that they've expanded the use and have perhaps provided some editorial expansion on the definition of a threat to national security. I can share with you that despite all of the meetings and all of the witnesses we've had here, I've yet to hear anybody clearly articulate the government's rationale for changing that definition. Will that be included in your response to the Rouleau commission report, specifically that point?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Again, I know that people will be very excited to see the government's response to the Rouleau commission, and the good news is that it's coming soon. As I said, we think Justice Rouleau did important, exhaustive work—
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Mr. LeBlanc, sir, please, we've been at this for quite some time. I am asking you a direct question. I am going to ask you to provide a direct response.
Will you—
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
I'm not going to tell you what's in the government response to the Rouleau commission. I am telling you—