Evidence of meeting #6 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:35 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Do you have the list of names that the RCMP submitted to the financial institutions?
7:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No.
7:35 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
All right, thank you.
Now I'll go to Mr. MacKillop and ask him the same questions.
Mr. MacKillop, do you think the RCMP alone designated persons to the financial institutions for seizure purposes?
7:35 p.m.
Deputy Director, Intelligence, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Thank you for your question.
I think the RCMP played a coordination role. The act…
7:35 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Pardon me for interrupting, Mr. MacKillop, but we don't have a lot of time.
Who do you think designated the persons?
7:35 p.m.
Deputy Director, Intelligence, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
I think any police force could designate persons, but I think the RCMP coordinated the list that was given to the financial institutions.
I think you'd the better off asking the RCMP that question.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thanks for the advice. That's what I'll do.
Do you have the list of designated persons whose bank accounts were to be seized or frozen?
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Director, Intelligence, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
No, sir.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you.
Now I'd like to go back to Ms. Jacques
Ms. Jacques, you said you regularly received lists from the financial institutions. No names appeared on those lists, but the amounts seized and other information did.
How many of those lists did you receive under the order?
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I don't know.
Considering how few days were involved, I'd say there were perhaps six.
I'll be able to provide the committee with the exact answer once I've done my research.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I'd appreciate that, Ms. Jacques.
We can say there were approximately six because there was roughly one a day.
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
We didn't receive any lists in the first days. As I said, the list wasn't long, but it included the amounts seized and the account balances.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
So the list included the money that was in the account and the amount frozen.
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
We were given the total amount, but not the total for each of the accounts. We had no idea of the value of each account. For example, we were told there were 13 accounts and a total of $1 million.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No, we received it through the Canadian Bankers Association.
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No, but Desjardins also sent us information. I think it did so once, but I'll have to…
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Yes, because I don't want to give you any false information.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you; that's good of you.
Ms. Jacques, what did you do with those reports?
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
The reports were definitely forwarded internally to the deputy minister. There was also aggregate data. However, I don't know if those reports were forwarded outside the department.
Mr. Brazeau, can you answer the question?
7:40 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Yes, aggregate data was forwarded to the Privy Council, which aggregated information based on what was happening with respect to the emergency measures.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
If there were no names on the lists and no one knew how much money had been seized in each account, what was the point of aggregating data?
7:40 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
It gave us an idea of the size of the amounts that had been frozen and of the total amounts in the accounts that had been frozen.