Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

At the most, these things would have been frozen for nine days, unless they were frozen somewhat earlier, but that would be as a result of the bank's acting on its own volition. Is that correct?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes. We understand they were orders that existed prior to the order coming into force.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay.

Do you know how many such orders there may have been, just approximately, prior to that?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I don't recall. I know there was at least one Ontario court order, but I do not recall.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay.

There's an obligation under the economic measures orders about a duty to cease dealings. You've talked about this duty. That's subsection 2(1).

If the RCMP gives information on a hypothetical John Doe to CIBC, and CIBC then makes the decision whether to freeze the assets of that John Doe, yes or no, and it chooses not to freeze the assets, would there be any penalties or consequences for CIBC for not doing so?

[Isabelle Jacques]

No, there were no penalties, and your statement was accurate.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

You mentioned at the outset that 280 products were frozen and that the value of these products was $8 million. Did I hear you correctly?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes, approximately.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Do you have any sense of how much in total was fundraised for illegal blockades in this country? I heard anecdotally that it was roughly in the order of $20-odd million. Do you have any sense of that number?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I do not, but I can certainly turn to my colleague Julien Brazeau.

[Julien Brazeau]

No, for any broad figures, we're relying on media statements. The only numbers we received were of accounts frozen by the financial institutions themselves.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Do you have any sense of how many people were donating to various illegal blockades around the country?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I do not have that number, no.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

In terms of the impact of these measures, can you give us a sense of your evaluation? There has been a lot of talk about the economic measures and how they were designed, etc. I also understood, I think, from your testimony today and from what I've read, that simply the threat of the possibility of some of these freezings occurring dissuaded people from participating in illegal activity. Is that a fair statement?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes, it is.

We heard—and again you'd have to verify this with the RCMP—that reports were made that certainly some people did not show up on the Hill because they did not want their accounts to be frozen. It did dissuade people. I think the other impact was that the frozen $8 million then did not go towards illegal activities.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

In terms of the illegal activities, I was curious about one aspect. We've talked a bit about what Ontario did and what the City of Ottawa did, or attempted to do. One thing that Premier Ford attempted to do in this province was to address the Ontario-plated vehicles. He had jurisdiction over Ontario-plated vehicles.

I noted from my review of the economic measures order that, obviously, it's a national order and dealt with things like insurance provisions. Was that a tool that allowed the measures to be taken vis-à-vis insurance companies, such that if a car were registered in Alberta or B.C. or Saskatchewan, as the case may be, or whatever province other than Ontario it might be, economic repercussions could follow for the owner of that vehicle because it was registered and likely insured in a different province?

[Isabelle Jacques]

It could have occurred, certainly. Insurance companies were asked to cease providing services. It would be possible that under the order, insurance could have been suspended for those people participating in the illegal activities on the Hill, but I'm not aware of any such occurrence. I'm not aware of any insurance being suspended.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Was the threat of insurance being suspended sufficient to dissuade some people with vehicles registered—

[Isabelle Jacques]

I think it did, because it's their livelihood. Some of the truckers on the Hill use their trucks for work. I think, certainly, that had a dissuasive effect.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much, Mr. Virani.

We will now move on to Monsieur Fortin. You have five minutes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Jacques.

You've been asked the question several times, but I'm not sure I heard a clear answer. It was also put to Mr. MacKillop.

The order concerns designated persons. Who designated those persons? It's my understanding that it was the RCMP, but it's not clear in my mind.

Who prepared the list of accounts that would be seized or frozen?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I understand your question.

There was no list of designated persons. Consequently,…

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

How were they designated in this case?

How could a financial institution know that Rhéal Fortin, for example, was a designated person and that his bank account should be seized?

[Isabelle Jacques]

That's a good question.

The RCMP sent information to the financial institutions, which proceeded with the necessary checks based on that information.