Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Isabelle Jacques]

I think the Saturday was the 12th, I believe. We had very little time.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, I appreciate that, and I would suggest to both that while at times it might be hostile, I feel like the pressure on this particular committee will be to provide recommendations to the House, to the Senate and to government, essentially, to hopefully provide clear parameters for all involved should this ever happen again: clear definitions, clear roles and responsibilities.

I feel like in the course of this particular meeting some of the responsibilities have been a little bit confusing at times, so I'll ask you, in your lead-up, in this policy briefing and analysis that you're doing recognizing the state of the country, how did your department assess the threat level posed by the financing of the occupation and the blockades, leading up to the emergency declaration, so prior to its consideration?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Certainly, I didn't do a threat assessment per se, but we were concerned to see that there was so much money that was being funded through the GoFundMe fund, I believe it's called. When we saw that they decided to freeze all activities and actually remit all money to donors, certainly it caused us some concerns. They were worried that the funds were being used for a purpose that they were not comfortable with, so certainly—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Was your department involved in any of the economic impact assessments that would have been provided in briefings to either public safety or cabinet, or the PMO?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I was not involved in any of those. I cannot answer that question.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Nothing around the national, economic or financial losses...? There would have been nothing coming from your department on that.

[Isabelle Jacques]

I did not receive at that time, certainly any numbers, concerning that.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Given your fairly senior position within the department, how would you say those assessments would be made and by whom?

[Isabelle Jacques]

You mean with respect to the economic impact?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Correct.

[Isabelle Jacques]

Well, I don't know who exactly in the group would have made those assessments, if anyone. I'm not aware. I don't have the answer to that question. I don't know if Julien can—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I would state, through you, Madam Chair, that much of the invocation, at face value, highlights the economic impacts on the country as a part of the threat to national security. I find it interesting that your department wouldn't have had any type of policy analysis or submissions on that.

I'll go to my next question. Did your department, in its consideration of the state of the country in the lead-up to the invocation, have any tools prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act that would have prevented the financing of the occupation of Ottawa and the border blockades?

[Isabelle Jacques]

We did not have any tools that would allow us to freeze those accounts, no.

Just if I may—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm going to take my time back.

Mr. MacKillop, through you Madam Chair, did FINTRAC have any tools for interventions that might have been effective prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

[Barry MacKillop]

Madam Chair, we would not have had any tools to stop the funding of anything. We cannot freeze accounts, stop funding or direct financial institutions or crowdfunding platforms.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's correct. I did hear that in your earlier testimony. Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Green, your time's up.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm taking back the chair.

Senator Boniface, you have five minutes. The floor is now yours.

[Gwen Boniface]

I'd like to direct a question back to Madame Jacques.

I wonder if you'd just like to finish your answer to Mr. Green so we could have the benefit of the full answer.

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes. Thank you.

I'll mention that I did not say that there was no information on the economic impact of the events that were ongoing. It was just that I was not privy to those discussions. I wanted to maybe ask Julien Brazeau if he could complete my response or add to it.

[Julien Brazeau]

Apologies.

I was just saying that, from a financial sector policy perspective, we weren't part of any discussions on the broader economic impacts of what was happening at the border. I would be speculating, but I would expect that discussions were taking place within the department in terms of getting a sense of what the economic impacts were.

[Gwen Boniface]

If I'm clear then from both of your answers, your sense is that there's something within the Department of Finance, but it doesn't fall within your particular area. Is that correct?

[Isabelle Jacques]

That is correct.

[Gwen Boniface]

Thank you.

I'd just like to go back to the questions on amendments that are under way. We spoke about those in my last line of questioning. I'm wondering whether or not there is anything that is a duplicate of any provincial legislation that requires registration and reporting. I'm trying to figure out how the provincial legislation, if it exists, would interact with the federal legislation around registration and reporting.

[Isabelle Jacques]

To my knowledge there's no duplication, but again maybe Julien Brazeau may want to add something.