Evidence of meeting #6 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
On relevance, I believe we agreed as a committee on the scope of our study, and this falls beyond the scope.
8:50 p.m.
NDP
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Jacques, will you undertake to provide information to this committee from any source as to why the government did not instruct any financial institution to take steps to freeze the accounts of those who were involved in that illegal activity?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'm unable to undertake to provide that information. The government did not specifically direct anybody or any financial institutions to freeze accounts. I do not have that information and—
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Mr. Chair, I'm not sure there was a ruling on my point of order. I may have missed it.
8:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Yes. I've allowed him to continue the question. That was the ruling.
Mr. Brock, you may continue.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
You could not obtain that information. Is that what I'm hearing?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I would not be able to obtain that information.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
Would you agree with this particular statement that “weaponizing the financial system to resolve domestic dissent or even criminal justice issues is a terrible precedent to set”? Do you agree or disagree with that?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
As a witness to this committee, I do not believe it would be my role to answer such a question.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
The government has stated several times that they needed the Emergencies Act to shut off funding to organizations that were undertaking illegal activity in Canada. The issue we've discussed quite a bit already is that the Emergencies Act can be invoked only if there is a national security emergency that cannot be effectively dealt with under under any other law in Canada.
Much has been said about how the GoFundMe was cancelled before the Emergencies Act was invoked. Can you say definitely that there were no other laws that could have been used to achieve the government's goal of depriving or choking off—as Minister Freeland often refers to—the funding of the convoy from those sources of funds?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I was not involved in any discussions leading to the decision to be made to trigger the Emergencies Act, and as such I cannot comment.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
The Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada appeared on national television and was asked who the economic measures, in other words freezing assets, would apply to. He was quoted as saying, “If you are [part] of a pro-Trump [organization]... you ought to be worried”. This seems to go beyond the stated intentions, and comes awfully close to the government signalling that it was willing to target political opponents.
Can you clarify whether Minister Lametti went too far in his remarks and what sort of scope the financial measures of the February 14 order in council had in terms of who should have been captured by those asset freezes?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'm sure you will understand that I'm not in a position to comment on this statement.
8:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Of the 280 accounts that were identified and accounts frozen, how many particular individuals are we talking about?
8:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I think this an answer that the RCMP would be able to provide.
8:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you. That concludes the round.
We will now go to Ms. Bendayan for five minutes.
8:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Jacques, some members of the committee still appear to be confused about the difference between the terms "seized" and "frozen".
Could you give us definitions of these terms in writing so that we can all be on the same wavelength?
Is that accepted, Madam Jacques?
8:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Could you provide us with these definitions and repeat what is contained in section 2?
8:55 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
To FINTRAC, I would like to similarly ask if you can table with this committee your working definitions of “money laundering” and “terrorism activity”.
May 3rd, 2022 / 8:55 p.m.
Deputy Director, Intelligence, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Absolutely.
Would you like that tabled with the committee, or would you like me to explain that right now?
