Evidence of meeting #9 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was laws.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you. I will take the chair back.
I'll cede my time although, procedurally, I'm not required to. I did that as a bit of a courtesy, hoping we could have moved through that quickly. I apologize. It took more time perhaps than necessary, given the guests.
We'll move on to Senator Boniface for three minutes.
9:15 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you very much.
I just want to go back to some of the questions around the tow trucks. I appreciate that you aren't in the operational capacity, but you would be receiving information.
My understanding, watching it, would be that it was not just a few tow trucks. There were many tow trucks. From a police operational perspective, the operation would have to be done in tandem with a number of trucks. It's not as simple, as I observed it, as needing one truck at a time to move and move out.
I would assume that in your briefings you would have—from the RCMP and you would have had it from other agencies—an idea of the complexity of the type of operation that would be required. Am I correct?
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, you are correct in the general sense. We were not privy, of course, to the plans of the police or the number of tow trucks they required, but we were well aware that many were required.
9:15 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Can you tell me, as it went on, about the role of CBSA? I assume it falls under your portfolio.
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It falls under the Minister of Public Safety.
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
They were actively involved in these consultations. They were actively involved in monitoring, obviously, the borders that they man, and they were providing advice about the convoys as they appeared.
9:15 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
I assume that the CBSA would also have a role in sharing information with law enforcement agencies, and that at least some of the information they would have been picking up from their own sources. Would that be correct?
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Absolutely. They work in close concert with the police of jurisdiction, and the police of jurisdiction work together to gather intelligence.
9:15 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
With respect to the part of the order that would have dealt with people coming from outside of the country for the convoy, I would expect some of that information would have come through or been brought to the attention of CBSA. Would that be correct?
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
To the extent that it was known by the police, yes.
9:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
They were able to discern it, though, themselves by questioning at the border.
9:15 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Sure. You hit where I was going. Thank you.
Particularly around the length of the protest for the people who were living here in Ottawa—and I think Mr. Naqvi talked about this—we started to see, if I remember correctly, some counterprotests taking place, which I would have thought would also make trying to manage the event much more difficult from the police perspective.
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That may be the case. I didn't receive that as information. There was the possibility that the counter-demonstrations could clash, but I believe they were separated.
9:20 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Yes, but as you look forward, I would think—and I'll ask the police this because, as you indicate, it is an operation they would know—the more people you draw with opposing opinions against each other, you would certainly be looking down the road at a more complex situation. Would you not agree?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Indeed, although I would emphasize the point that I made earlier, which is that the risk as we assessed it in the context of Ottawa in particular, but elsewhere with the blockades as well, was the threat of mobilizing to serious violence in the convoys themselves.
9:20 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you.
In our final round we have Senator Carignan.
You have three minutes, sir.
9:20 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
On February 12, the Ottawa Police Service said the following on its website:
All available officers were deployed last night. We have a plan to end this unlawful occupation and await the necessary reinforcements to do so.
Here, the Ottawa Police Service says “we have a plan”. Were you informed of this plan?
9:20 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
Did you ask any questions when you saw this statement by the police service on February 12? Did you ask what the plan was?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
No, because it was neither usual or appropriate to intervene in police operations.
9:20 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
I find that statement bizarre. You say it is not in your nature to intervene in their operations. However, when it is observed that they aren't able to tow vehicles, the Emergencies Act is applied.
That's a somewhat substantial intervention, don't you think?
9:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, but obviously the plan was determined to be insufficient.
9:20 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
How could you determine that the plan was insufficient if you had neither asked for it nor seen it?