Declaration of Emergency Committee on June 7th, 2022

[Rob Stewart]

I'm working for Public Safety, sir, and I've been in the position for two and a half years.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Okay, so you have some experience there.

We continually hear, for instance, that this act was invoked because the police could not control a situation where there were children. Are you aware that police virtually every day in this country find themselves in the situation where there are children involved and where they have to call upon resources that are outside the police force, i.e., child care workers?

[Rob Stewart]

I am aware of that, sir. In the case of Ottawa, they did have Children's Aid standing by.

[Larry W. Campbell]

The previous witness said we couldn't move here because it was a dangerous situation and there were children involved. I really think that's a red herring.

Let's move onto something else—the tow trucks. Police don't typically have tow trucks. What they do is they have contracts with tow truck companies and I would say in Ottawa, that contract is probably in the million-dollar range. As a lawyer and being in Public Safety, would the tow truck contract not be enforceable so that they can't just refuse to send tow trucks to a situation where they're needed?

[Rob Stewart]

It's not just here in Ottawa, but elsewhere.

[Larry W. Campbell]

You're telling me that if I phone the tow truck company as the chief of police and say, if you're not going to do this, we're cancelling your contract and don't apply again, there wouldn't be some action on the part of the tow truck company?

[Rob Stewart]

That's a hypothetical, sir. I would say that what we knew and what the RCMP as the contract police in Alberta knew was that the tow truck drivers they had under contract would not do the work.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Okay. Last question, have you ever been to Petawawa?

[Rob Stewart]

I have.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Have you ever seen the heavy equipment that they have there for moving tanks, moving heavy vehicles? They basically have an engineering division there. Have you seen that?

[Rob Stewart]

No, but I think I know what you mean.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Why weren't they called upon?

[Rob Stewart]

There was a request for assistance from the Government of Alberta for the Canadian Armed Forces' towing capability, and it was declined on the basis that Alberta hadn't fully used its own access to resources and also because the equipment of the CAF was going to damage the trucks.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Does that make any sense to you whatsoever? These people are breaking the law. We're in a situation where there are guns involved. The government is considering an emergency order, and we allow somebody to tell us, our military to tell us, that we're not going because we don't think they've used the resources. Is that the state that we're in here? Police cannot do their jobs, and the military cannot do its job. Can you answer that?

[Rob Stewart]

I wouldn't see it the way you see it, sir. I think, in the circumstances, the military was going to be inappropriate and insufficient. What we needed at the border at Coutts was dozens of tow trucks for hundreds of trucks.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Okay. Forget the border at Coutts. What about Petawawa? It's just down the road.

[Rob Stewart]

As it unfolded, the request was for the trucks that exist at the base in the west.

[Larry W. Campbell]

I'm not asking about the base in the west. We're talking about Ottawa, the national capital, under siege, and we cannot get military tow trucks to come and tow big trucks because we're afraid they'll be damaged. Are you serious?

[Rob Stewart]

I am telling you what happened.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much.

We will now go into the second round. It will be a four-minute round for the Conservatives and the Liberals, followed by three-minute rounds.

We will begin with Mr. Brock.

Mr. Brock, you have four minutes, sir.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Stewart, I'll start off by saying that, in the words of Perrin Beatty, extraordinary powers require extraordinary [government accountability. With all due respect to you, sir, to the questions put to you by my colleague Mr. Motz, I do not accept your response that Minister Mendicino did not use his words appropriately, when he's on record as stating that law enforcement asked for the use of the Emergencies Act. Your response was that he chose the wrong set of words, or he was misunderstood.

Minister Mendicino is a senior government official. He's been a member of Parliament for a significant period of time. He is a lawyer. Words matter. He spoke in the House numerous times. He gave speeches in the House numerous times. He responded to questions, did press releases and went on televison. Every time he did that, Mr. Stewart, he was consistent in his messaging that law enforcement asked for the use of the Emergencies Act. Only until law enforcement, testifying at this committee and other committees, flat out refuted that statement did we hear a change in Minister Mendicino by stating they were consulting with law enforcement.

My question to you is this: Were you yourself responsible, or members of your office responsible, in terms of giving Minister Mendicino those words that law enforcement asked for the Emergencies Act on numerous occasions?

[Rob Stewart]

We don't script the minister, sir.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Who does?

[Rob Stewart]

The minister speaks for himself.