Electoral Reform Committee on Sept. 29th, 2016

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I'd like to thank the three witnesses for being here today, and absolutely making my head whizz, trying to figure out, because I am very visual, so not having those briefs, it's hard for me visualize. I did download your report, Mr. Graham, and I will read it to get a better understanding. I'm looking forward to receiving the brief, as I am yours, Mr. Green.

I'd like to thank the members of the audience who have trickled in over the course of the last couple of hours and those who have stayed since the beginning.

Mr. Graham, you mentioned, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding, that the second or the regional MP would be selected based on merit. Define “merit” for me.

[Sean Graham]

Sure. By merit, I mean by how many votes they received. For example, let's go back to the Liberal Party needing 10 more seats. The top performer in, let's say, western Canada for the Liberal Party at that point in time, may have 30% of the vote. So 30% of the vote for the Liberal Party would put that candidate ahead of another Liberal candidate with only 20% of the vote. When you go to the seat allocation process, the candidate with 30% of the vote would be allocated a seat before the one with 20%.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

It's purely just based on the number of votes; it's not technically based on merit. When I say “merit”, I'm thinking more in performance—CV, competency, so on and so forth.

[Sean Graham]

No, it would be merit in terms of how they performed at the polls.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Okay.

Now, Mr. Green, I'm not sure I'm getting it, but I want to make sure I am. I really want to get this. You called it a declining plurality. I'm a little worried about which one of us at this table is in those 67 who got the boot, but I don't want to know.

[Joseph Green]

I can find that for you.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Don't tell me. Let me live in my little happy world right here.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding, so let me just take the province of Quebec, 78 seats. In the province of Quebec, you would have 78 ridings, they have their election, first past the post. How does it work that you pick the top performers and then shift them around? I'm just trying to make sure I understand exactly how this would work.

[Joseph Green]

Exactly how I did my spreadsheet in the middle of the night.

In the House of Commons report it talks about the number of votes and the calculated percentage. If you simply put that into a spreadsheet and sort the percentages in declining order, and you fill the top ones first—so let's say the calculation is the Liberals got 40% of the vote—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

The total votes of those seats.

[Joseph Green]

The total vote is 40%, they get 40% of the seats. The first 40% of the seats are filled by that elected Liberal member with the highest percentage, then the second, then the third, then the fourth, down to the fortieth, right? It's mechanical. What I'm saying is the pluralities—and you may not notice it—actually impounds some of the things you're chasing. It's already in there. That's the trick. We want to get the maximum number of voters getting their party or their member.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Say, for instance, the Liberals had 40, the Conservative had—

[Joseph Green]

Whatever, 13—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

—29 or whatever, the first 40% of the seats go to the top-performing—

[Joseph Green]

Right, those seats are filled first.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Got it.

[Joseph Green]

Then the second party gets its fill with what is left. Then the third party, and then the fourth party. By the time we get to the Greens, the Green vote in Canada is very diffused, but they still have voters and they still have preferences. It shouldn't be diluted through a preferential ballot or something else. That party should have a spokesman. The only thing that will be tough for the Greens, in this instance, is that by the time you get down to their rating, there may not be a place for the leader. It may be some other guy in St. Albert.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Good for me.

[Joseph Green]

All I'm saying is it's a math trick. That's what I wanted to bring to your attention, because we have a lot of things in our electoral system that work really well. It's the pride of our country. Many other countries emulate it. Let's not muck it up. Let's simply improve this representation so we reduce the cleavage plains in our country. In Alberta, as you now, we all have one. In Quebec I'm not sure I understand it, although I've been there on a couple of airborne jobs.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Mr. Green, you mentioned something earlier, you said if they didn't get it, then next time they'll have to work harder and just make sure their member got elected. So why wouldn't we just tell them, “Let's do that now?”

I'm just throwing that out there, devil's advocate.

[Joseph Green]

Pardon me?

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Devil's advocate. What if we were simply to say to folks, “Okay, you're not happy that your candidate didn't win. That is motivation for you to go out and work harder for your candidate next time.”?

[Joseph Green]

Right, because every vote counts.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

No, no, but this is the same rationale for the current system.

[Joseph Green]

Right. But in the current system, in this calculation, out of the 338 seats, all of them would be placed as the first past the post system places it. There's no need to change any of it.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.