Evidence of meeting #38 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pei.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
If I may, I'd like to answer that first.
Mr. Brown has already alluded to a number of the obstacles that perhaps seemed to be in place during the time of the 2005 plebiscite. We were....
This is the first time I'll say publicly what I said into my coffee cup a number of times in 2005.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
A polling station issue occurred with that plebiscite in that the number of polling stations in the province were dramatically reduced. Folks no longer went to where they thought they were going. It did create some frustration. The other thing that surfaced partway through our educational program was that I think both of the mainline parties in the province realized, for the first time, the ramifications of mixed member proportional.
It was an unspoken issue around our commission table. There were reasons for that. We had party people sitting at the table, nominated by the two main parties. We just didn't talk about that. But again, away from the official spot, several people would talk about what they knew.
The thing that happened was that as the parties realized that it could be possible under mixed member proportional for those who might have the majority under the first-past-the-post portion to indeed not have a majority standing when the....
What's the word I'm looking for? I have a mind block.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
Well, it could result in a minority situation. If the list people were just cut out of it altogether, then they might indeed have a majority standing.
We began to get undermined by the very folks who put us in place. I don't quite know how to back that up, but I do know it was discussed within parish situations, church situations. Parties collectively were advising the general public about the pitfalls of looking at mixed member proportional.
My own view was that the parties of the day realized that the power they could hold under first past the post might not exist under mixed member proportional, but they indeed had asked that mixed member proportional be pursued.
So that's limited, in my view, the number of people who might have voted yes or no, and the number who turned out.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
We're well over seven minutes, but maybe somebody else can follow up on that when they get a chance.
Chair, Legislative Assembly of Prince Edward Island, Special Legislative Committee on Democratic Renewal
If I could just tell you quickly, too, we did address that in our second report. If you want to look for it, it's in there.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you very much.
I wouldn't mind the reference page so we can focus in on your second report.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Maybe later. It doesn't have to be now.
Well, Mr. Russell, you just said something incredibly important.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
I might not make it out of the hall.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I think you'll make it out of the hall just fine.
We came across from Newfoundland today, and as I was coming in, I was wondering why P.E.I. has been so good at trying to get at this question. Why is it a question here as opposed to not being a big question in Saskatchewan or not being a big question in Newfoundland, just in terms of history? Then I looked through the last, say, five provincial results, and I can see why. Under the results, there have been many occasions when a party got 58% of the vote, but got 96% of the seats. A party got 52% of the votes and then that translated into 85% of the seats. Then in the last election, as you say, the Greens and the NDP came together for about 22% of the vote, and had zero seats.
The will of the voter not being reflected into the House of Commons, is it a strong motivation for the conversation here in Prince Edward Island? I ask you that question more neutrally.
But it's based on people seeing the results that they're seeing.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
In the latter part of what we did in 2005, our commission could see that some traction was being gained at least in terms of the interests. It may not have shown up at the polling station, and I think there are a couple of reasons why perhaps that didn't occur.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let's get into those reasons, because not having the same polling stations—voter habits are what they are—people not going down to the church or the high school they've always voted at, not having as many, having one voting day, etc., are all barriers that we know can distort a vote.
You said you began to get undermined by the very folks who put you in place. It seems that the challenge for politicians in this is the theory versus the practice, I suppose, of electoral reform. In theory, it's hard to look through the results both here provincially and nationally and see that distortion. Voters said this and that was sometimes unrecognizable in the results. In the last two elections federally, we've had 39% of the vote for each of the governing parties who won office, yet they end up with 100% of the power in the House, and 60% or more of voters are sitting there wondering how that works. It seems that it's not difficult to undermine this process. It's almost like you're talking about an elephant in the room.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
As soon as people started to do some math, they went, “Hey, wait a second, this might lead to minority parliaments, might lead to sharing power.” I think sharing power philosophically is not a bad thing, and in Canada's history, it has led to some great policies, such as the social safety net and the flag.
How do we overcome this federally? I'm sure 60-odd per cent of those voted into this Parliament came in with a mandate to change the electoral system. We have a black and white promise from the Prime Minister that that was the last election under first past the post, yet one senses the enthusiasm from the Prime Minister's Office has waned somewhat. We're not getting the kind of energy.... It took us eight months to even get a committee together. It doesn't show urgency. How do we overcome that?
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
I don't have an answer for that, but I think when you're in the position, as you folks are, of now trying to take a fresh look at what could happen or should happen nationally, I think the elephants that are in the room should be given sandwiches and tea—you're in Prince Edward Island—and then make sure everybody understands what they are.
Now we didn't address it at our table—
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sorry, I'm missing you a bit, but you mean name it, essentially, put it out on the table.
Chair, Commission on P.E.I.’s Electoral Future
That's right. We didn't put it on the table, but it needs to be put on the table.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That this has consequences.... It has consequences for people who are in office now.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Their seat might change. They may, in fact, not get elected again. If the system that worked for you to get you into power is going to be changed, and maybe power won't be acquired in the same way, that has to be named.