Electoral Reform Committee on Oct. 7th, 2016

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I've been concerned for years. I grew up in a generation in which I was very much attuned to the stories of my mother's experience in the Depression. She grew up in the United States with FDR and the New Deal. The notion of government doing good in our lives was part of the culture and the consciousness in which I grew up. Personally, I think the neo-liberalism of the Thatcher-Reagan era broke that link, and for a lot of people the mantra became, “big government is bad government.” The notion of government as an extension of ourselves in a democracy, I think, may have been severed by a shift.

I'm very concerned about how we can get that back. Changing our voting system is part of it, but we've been talking more around this table about democracy as being sort of an ecosystem of concepts and elements that we need to keep healthy. What you shared with us I find in many ways more alarming than declining voter turnout, because if you don't know who your premier is and you don't know who your MP is, you're obviously not thinking that those people are actually doing anything meaningful for you in your life. This is not a good person to quote around here, but wasn't it Trotsky who said you may not be interested in politics, but politics will get interested in you?

How do we engage people? I ask this to anybody here who has ideas. How do we use the opportunities we have around this table, as an electoral reform special committee of parliamentarians, to find mechanisms and tools to help the general project of democracy in Canada? Changing our voting system to PR, I think, is part of it. Lowering the voting age, as Mademoiselle Duguay suggests, I think, is another key piece.

Before I run out of time, could you throw out any ideas that any of you have?

I think I should start with you, Sue, because I haven't asked you anything yet for the record.

[Sue Duguay]

Let me tell you how we see that.

As I explained in my presentation, we at the FJFNB operate according to a model designed by young people for young people. It does not matter whether someone is an adult, either younger or older, in order to stimulate their interest, they have to be able to feel involved. With social networks, it is easy to determine our interests, to decide what we want to do, to decide on subjects that we want to become informed about. So, you have to capture the attention of young people by showing them other things in which they can become involved.

In terms of democracy in Canada, it is perhaps time to realize that young people do not necessarily have a place in it. They have to fight more than an adult does to find one.

So our youth has to be involved in this movement. A lot of people like myself see the potential. We want to show that there are other young adults like ourselves who do not come out of their shells.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Is there time for anybody else to comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, sure, the three of you could just pipe in very briefly.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Could I hear from Mr. Filliter?

[John Filliter]

PR should really attract more people to voting if they realize that they have choices and that they're not just voting for their local MP, that they're voting for a party that may result in regional MPs. If open lists are employed, they can even be voting across parties, which really appeals to me. I like choice and I like the voters' votes to be respected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Professor Howe.

[Paul Howe]

I agree with your analysis of the evolution over time, and of how we've become disconnected from government to the point where we feel like the government is just this agency that does things but is not really our government. That discourse has been quite corrosive, and I agree that it probably began in the 1980s.

In the discourse that surrounds these kinds of things, it's important to say that this is a project for Canadians, with Canadians. That sort of collective sense that we are doing something together to make our country better is a discourse that draws people into democracy.

[James Wilson]

Let me just say that I agree with what has been said. I'll add that the cynicism that you see, especially online in Canada, and even in your neighbourhood, is almost poisonous. People will say, “Oh, the government's not here for me,” or “The government's just full of people who lie, cheat and steal,” and as they say it, it spreads and it gets worse.

I remember a few years back when Premier Gallant—yes, I know who the premier is—cut the salary of cabinet members. Although it was a very small act, even in my family it was looked on very positively as a politician doing something that was good for the country rather than something that was good for themselves. I think it's going to take a lot of small acts, because, as Mr. Cullen has noted, politicians are not seen very well. At this point, I think they're actually seen as worse than used car salesmen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, on that note I think we'll go to another questioner.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have the floor, Mr. Rayes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Good evening.

My thanks to the four witnesses who have come to meet with us. I also join my colleagues in thanking the people in the audience who have come out.

This is our last day. At least it is for me. In the two weeks I have spent with the members of the committee, I have been able to visit a number of beautiful cities in Canada and I am very happy about that.

My questions go mainly to you, Ms. Duguay. This is not because the other witnesses are not interesting, but personally, my impression is that we have heard almost everything in these last three weeks, counting the sessions in Ottawa. I say that with all respect, I think we have really considered the matter from all angles.

Having said that, I am very interested in the opinion of young people. I feel that it is important. We talk a lot about women, but we have not talked a lot about young people. In addition, the various organizations that have come to meet with us have told us that we perhaps have not listened to them enough or that we have not moved enough in their direction. Most of the sessions took place in the afternoon while young people were at school. In order to get to know their opinions a little more, we should perhaps have held some meetings in universities, colleges, or CEGEPs in Quebec, or even in high schools. This is a constructive comment, and we should perhaps consider it for future consultations.

I would like to hear what you have to say about mandatory voting. Is it something that the people in your organization have discussed with any intensity?

[Sue Duguay]

It was one of the issues we discussed. We did not deal with it directly with a view to taking an official position. Our ideas on the matter remain quite general, at least for the moment. It is evolving all the time.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Let me take the opportunity to ask for your personal opinion, even if it’s not the consensus in your organization. One of the nice surprises of being on this tour was hearing people speak favourably about mandatory voting. At the outset, I was not really in favour of it, but two of the arguments we have heard were very compelling.

The first argument is that mandatory voting would encourage politicians to pay more attention to the opinion of segments of society that do not vote right now, the poor and the young. It has been shown that poorer people are less likely to vote. If the vote is mandatory, with or without penalties, politicians would of necessity consider the opinion of those people, especially the young, because they would be voting.

The second argument was made yesterday or the day before, if I’m not mistaken. Someone told us that the Chief Electoral Officer had to invest a huge amount of energy into very expensive ad campaigns just to encourage people to vote. Instead, those resources could be used to deal with the electoral platforms of political parties or to introduce civic education and to raise awareness about social issues.

If the vote were mandatory, the Chief Electoral Officer and the political parties would not actually have to work so hard to encourage people to vote. Political parties could be working more on explaining their platforms to, and meeting with, the public, rather than making phone calls, and so on.

Do you think it would be useful to explore the issue?

[Sue Duguay]

Absolutely.

I will take off my president hat and answer as Sue Duguay.

I find the idea quite interesting. However, I think that, if voting becomes mandatory, it will have to be accessible as well. It’s all very well to want everyone to vote, but it’s not easy to do so for the most disadvantaged and the young people you talked about. As I mentioned, some are not in their home region for the vote.

If voting becomes mandatory, everyone must be able to have access to it.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Since you gave a very quick answer, I will be able to move to the next question.

To make voting accessible, especially for young people, could electronic voting be an interesting solution?

Many people are afraid of it. However, just yesterday, I wrote a cheque, then photographed it with my cellphone, and sent it off. I have carried out transactions. I bought tickets to go see my young niece perform in La Voix Junior at the Bell Centre in Montreal. I’m thinking that technology should really enable us to make voting more accessible to young people.

[Sue Duguay]

Absolutely. It’s 2016. I am certain that it would be possible to do things properly and securely. As I mentioned, social networks are clearly reaching young people directly. It's a stereotype, true, but actually, those networks do a fairly good job of reaching the public at large these days. I’m sure that electronic voting could make things quite interesting.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Let me ask you a trick question.

You want to set up a mandatory civics course for all young people. You said so earlier. As a former elementary and secondary school teacher and principal, I know that everyone would like to have more gym, more music or more sex ed. However, when the time comes to set up the curriculum, choices need to be made.

As a student, which subjects would you like to see removed from the curriculum to make room for a civic education course?

[Sue Duguay]

We've been asked that question before. As students, we are aware of the challenge. We don't want to take anything out, because we need everything. That's good. However, we are missing some things, whereas others are a little repetitive. We can do without the repetition. When you cover the same topic for four years, you have a good grasp. We should have variety. We should learn how to neutrally interpret the content of electoral platforms in preparation for voting.

Educating students in a neutral way is part of the school systems' role. We must make sure that civic education is neutral. I'm sure it's possible to do so. This does not mean removing something, but rather adding and increasing young people's opportunities for action.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Could that be integrated horizontally in a number of subjects?

For instance, during election years, could the French course have theoretical material, particularly in comprehension tests?

[Sue Duguay]

It can be done that way, sort of indirectly, but that's absolutely not what young people are looking for. We want something practical.

For instance, we have heard a lot of talk about bullying, but the situation still needs to be improved. That's not what we want. For future generations of citizens to be educated and versed in this, tangible actions are needed so that the young people can really see what they have to do.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Ms. Duguay, right from the outset, you are my favourite young person. I say this with all due respect, without taking anything from all the other witnesses. It is refreshing to hear you.

Thank you.

[Sue Duguay]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Aldag, the floor is yours.