Evidence of meeting #39 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Should we put stringent measures in place to ensure political parties allow women and minorities to take their rightful place within their ranks, without necessarily changing the electoral system?
4:25 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
Ten.
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Zero, because they should do so freely, without being pressured.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Zero. That says it all.
What do you think of the idea of lowering the voting age to 16?
4:25 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
Eight.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you.
If the committee couldn't reach a consensus on a model to replace the current system, on a scale of one to 10, would you agree with holding a referendum so that Canadians could decide? Remember, I am referring specifically to a situation in which the committee was unable to arrive at a consensus.
4:25 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
Five.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you.
For my next question, you'll be able to round out your response, which I'm sure you'll appreciate.
Whether or not people want a new electoral system, the real issue for them is the contrast between local representation and proportional representation, which allocates seats in proportion to the share of the national vote.
All of the proportional systems that have been proposed reduce the number of seats to free up a certain number to achieve proportionality. That's what divides those who want to keep the status quo and those who want a change. It's not that those who prefer the status quo don't see the importance of proportional seat allocation; it's just that they don't support a weaker local presence in the ridings. Take me, as an example. I often say that my riding already has 40 municipalities, and I wouldn't want it to be any larger given how much I care about local representation.
What if we were to keep the 338 existing seats across the country but add some to achieve proportionality? I'm not talking about adding 200 or 300 seats as per the ideal model that has been proposed. Rather, I'm talking about adding some 40 or 50 seats to have better allocation, to help the smaller parties, to rebalance the shares, and to ensure representation is more proportional. Might that be a worthwhile compromise?
4:25 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
Do I have to say a number again?
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Voices
Oh, oh!
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
I would say 10, but there are other reasons that I think it would be better for the House if there were more seats, in terms of party dynamics and things like that, once you get into the working of the House of Commons. However, my number would be 10 in terms of keeping the 338 and adding more.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you.
I'm asking an important question because it has never been put to the witnesses.
We always consider the models proposed to us. Everyone wants to lower the number of seats because they don't think the public would accept having more added. But as I see it, it's the only model that would preserve local representation while achieving better proportional representation.
Mr. Elbert, you can go first. Then, Mr. Lewis, you can go ahead if you have something to add.
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
A lot of effort has been made to preserve local representation in the system I'm proposing. Even with regional seats, those members would have a strong link to the local community.
I think 338 seats is enough, especially since some MPs don't get a chance as it is to have their private members' bills appear in the order of precedence on the Order Paper. Normally, the order of precedence contains 100 or so bills. If 50 seats, for example, were added, those members would simply sit in the House without having an opportunity to see their bills put to a vote. What would that change?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
I'm going to respond, Mr. Elbert, if you don't mind.
When we talk about local representation, it really has nothing at all to do with private members' bills. I would say that, generally speaking, no member of the public even knows that exists. Local representation is much more visible in the work we do in our ridings, our presence at events alongside our constituents; it's that closeness that allows us to hear what people are saying and represent them faithfully in the decision-making process.
That said, thank you kindly for your remarks.
I believe Mr. Lewis had something to add. Would you allow him to do so, Mr. Chair?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
You know, a few of you have mentioned that no one is paying attention to the committee, so you could probably add 200 seats and no one would notice.
4:30 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
It's never easy to be the last person to ask questions because my colleagues ask a lot of...and I think, “Oh, they got it.”
First off, thank you so much for being here today. To the members of the audience who have been with us since 1:30, thank you.
I'd also like to thank all those who joined us along the way. I want to thank the members of the public for coming out in such force.
As I said earlier, it is a pleasure for me to be here in what is affectionately called Freddy Beach with my colleague Matt DeCourcey, who is probably one of the hardest working MPs on the Hill. I'm delighted to be here, and no, he didn't pay me for that.
We've talked a lot about education. In a previous life, I taught at McGill and miss the whiteboards and want to stand up and talk to students, though I'm stuck here in a seat at the moment.
We know that education is a provincial matter. We've talked a little bit about organizations that have a vested interest in certain outcomes of elections and that are advocating for certain electoral reforms. It's frustrating because the teacher in me always wants to make sure that, for whatever we put out there, we show the good, the bad, and the ugly, so that we're actually teaching Canadians that if we do x, it can equal y as well.
Obviously there's something missing from Elections Canada's role or the method in which they're communicating, because all of these other things keep popping up.
I'm turning to you, Mr. Lewis. Whenever folks are looking at getting information, we turn to this. We go to the Internet. We go to Facebook. We say to our friends, “Oh, I'm thinking about buying a new car. What do you think about X?” We don't trust the car maker. We want to talk to our friends. “What do you think about the Green Party? What do you think about the Liberals? What do you think about this?” We want to hear from our friends. We don't want to hear from the Liberals because they have a vested interest, and we don't want to hear about it from the Greens because they have a vested interest. How do we make sure...?
You said Elections Canada should have a role, but Elections Canada's core business is not education. I'm actually quite surprised that they haven't gone to the colleges or the universities and said, “We'll provide you with the content. Can you deliver? You provide the container,” because that's what colleges and universities do. That's their core business.
Is there something we can be doing differently to make sure that the information that's getting to Canadians is accurate information that shows all sides and that we are leveraging our partners? We've talked about Apathy is Boring and we've talked about Samara, which are fantastic organizations. But we also need to look at our colleges and universities. I know that provincial jurisdiction overlooks high schools and so on, but what about our colleges and universities? We have granting agencies like SSHRC that are doing great research that we could be looking at. Talk to me a little bit about that.
4:30 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of History and Politics, University of New Brunswick Saint John, As an Individual
I think, especially at the college and university levels, it's up to the instructor to incorporate certain resources into their curriculum, so you can't—
