Electoral Reform Committee on July 7th, 2016

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Actually, Mr. Kingsley, the least we can say is that there is a consensus in society about the fact that this would take a referendum. Many editorial writers, observers and analysts have said that Canadians need to be consulted. Many elected officials feel the same way. In 2012, the former Liberal leader, who is now the Minister of Foreign Affairs, clearly wrote that it would be done by referendum.

Mr. Dion, a very interested and very strong scholar, said clearly in his text that we shall ask Canadians to say what they think of that.

Mr. Kingsley, I'm running out of time, and I would like to ask you one last question.

You presided over five elections and one referendum, but I'm more interested in the electoral process and general elections. You made a new proposal that deserves consideration. I don't think that 26 months will be too long to explain to people what you are proposing if we decide to go in that direction.

Do you think that the five elections you oversaw did not represent how the public feels? In these cases, they were majority governments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please answer very quickly. The five minutes are up.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I feel very strongly that all these elections represented exactly the will of the people, in keeping with the system of representation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Madam Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you.

Following the conversation on referendums, previously we had Mr. Reid talk about voter turnout in the last national referendum that we had, and I believe he said it was 60%. To me, that doesn't seem like an overwhelming number. When I was quoting media that had misrepresented you in the past in 2000, you were concerned about the decline in voter turnout, and rightly so. As parliamentarians and as Canadians, we are all concerned about voter turnout. That's why we're trying to improve our electoral system.

In the last election we had 68.5%, and we're still trying to improve on that, so 60% turnout on a referendum doesn't seem to be all that great to me. We need to try to reach out to a lot of people that we're talking about—youth in particular, and those who are disadvantaged, who don't turn out at the polls. How do we get to know what they are thinking and how do we get their input? Going forward, how do we get them to participate in our electoral process?

That's why we're trying to better our system. It's so we can be more inclusive, which is the mandate of this committee. I'd like to get your opinion about whether you think referendum turnout is adequate, and whether that is the best way to get an answer. I've been following what you've been saying, so it seems you are impressed by the depth that we're going into on this committee, and that is definitely a good start. What comment do you have about that referendum turnout?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I think it's always important that the record be accurate when anyone has the floor in this committee. I noted Ms. Sahota mentioned an inaccurate number. It took me a second to find the number.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

What was the number?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I just wanted to point out that there was a 72% turnout in the last federal referendum. There were, I believe, over 20 million people—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It's not a point of order, but it's noted.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I just wanted to make the record clear. It was 72%.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Got it.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay. I was just going off a comment that was previously made. Upon googling the numbers, I think you can come to about 70% or 71-point-something. We've done better in elections before too, so I'm not saying it's anything to be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

But your question to Mr. Kingsley stands?

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

It stands, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Mr. Kingsley.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I'm going to be very blunt about this. It was 72% at the federal referendum. That could have been considered satisfactory. Then it was 72% in Great Britain, and that was unsatisfactory.

The point is, how important is the question to society? That has an impact on the turnout and the legitimacy of the results. It cannot be a simple answer of just one number being reached. The gravity of the question weighs on what an acceptable participation rate would be.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

With this matter, what would you think would be an acceptable participation rate, knowing that on our previous referendum we had 72%?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I've not gone in that direction in my thinking at this stage. I've indicated to you before that my wish is for this committee to come out with a unanimous recommendation, and if not, then with an overwhelming majority consensus. If not, I'll be more than happy to come back and tell you what I think.

Thank you.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you. I think that is really important, because we are trying to make sure that we have good engagement from all sides of the spectrum.

I'd like to get your input about how we can get marginalized people involved, whether it's aboriginal people or new Canadians or young people. I know you talked about electronic voting or online voting, but what are some other methods that can also be used in a new electoral process?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 25 seconds, please.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I'm sorry. I'm not getting the meaning of your question.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

What strategies can we use going forward? What should we look at?

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I'll be very quick.