Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was kyoto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
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Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That is part of the $1.6 billion.
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Conservative
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Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
At the moment, the government is continuing to manage things. Some programs are still functioning, even though there has been a freeze. Employees are being paid. So money is still being spent, but government expenditures have not been updated for several years now.
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
You referred to the foundations. We looked at one in particular.
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Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I am not sure of the exact number, but there are at least...
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
There are at least three that have to do with climate change or the environment in general.
We chose the one that was supposed to help develop a technology innovation demonstration project. We concluded that the foundation was relatively well managed, and had a good accountability system. The only thing missing was the results of greenhouse gas reduction projects, because they are long-term in nature, and it takes time before they produce results.
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Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Earlier, we were talking a little about the Kyoto objectives. If I understand correctly, Canada's annual production of CO2 is 270 million tonnes too high.
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That is correct, if we want to meet the goal set in the Kyoto Protocol.
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Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
You doubtless assessed the number of megatons or millions of tonnes that we could eliminate through various programs.
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We have some information on that. These are targets, not actual results. As I mentioned, from the figures we received, the three programs we looked at have so far produced reductions of 1 megaton. The objective is five megatons by 2010.
It is expected that there will be 5 megatons by 2010 under the voluntary agreement with the automobile industry. So we are at 10 megatons. If the large final emitters system works as it is supposed to, there will be a reduction of 30 megatons a year for the next five or six years. We have a total of 250 megatons. That is what we should have every year for the next 7 years. That is why, if we are going to achieve this objective, it is so important to purchase credits through the emissions trading system or to obtain credits otherwise.
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Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
That means we will have to purchase close to 200 megatons internationally because our system would not allow us to achieve such a reduction?
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I do not know what the exact figure is, but clearly, we will have to obtain some credits outside the country.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
The cost is about $15 a tonne, but since we can expect some fluctuations, the price could easily reach $40 a tonne. That means that this program would cost about $8 billion a year.
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
You may talk about fluctuations, but I cannot comment on what the market price may be. All we are saying at this stage is that the amount has been set at $15 a tonne, and the government has committed to a $15 ceiling. Elsewhere, on the European market, we have seen that the price can fluctuate between $15 and C$45 in a single year.
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Conservative
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Liberal
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Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
When did your commission table its recommendations, Ms. Gélinas?
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Last week, at the same time as the report.
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Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
So the government has not had much time to look at these recommendations and include them in the Green Plan.
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Excuse me, I would like to provide a clarification. The report was made public last week, but the government has been apprised of its content and our recommendations for several months. It has been working on its response to our recommendations.
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Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
That is what I was seeking to clarify by my first question. So, tell us, for how long has the government had these recommendations in its possession?
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We actually began providing paper versions of our initial recommendations in May.
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Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
I see.
You say in your statement that the government accepted these recommendations. How did it do that? Was there a text, a photocopy or an e-mail?
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Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I do not know whether you have a copy of the report. Look at any chapter, for example chapter 1, on page 44. Under paragraph 1.122, there is a recommendation followed by the government's response. It is included in our report.
