Evidence of meeting #21 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, to you, for coming today.
I have one question on the overall budget, just to get some context for this. Environment Canada spends $800 million a year or so. What's the total budget for the department?
9:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment
Thank you for this.
As I was trying to mention before, if you'd actually looked at the public accounts, you'd have seen that we've spent pretty much a billion dollars a year. Our main estimates focused primarily on a lot of the ongoing expenditures over time, but we do have a lot of programs or initiatives that have sunsetted over three or four years. This is why you get a bit of a difference.
Comparatively speaking, in terms of the main estimates portion, I think we're about $30-odd million less than last year. There are a few explanations for that. There are some minor changes, but typical fluctuations that you see.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Between the 2005-06 budget and the projections for 2008-09, there is the removal of about $92 million in savings. Is that about right?
10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment
I'm looking at page 8-5 of the estimates, and here we have $803 million versus prior years of $835 million, so I'm not quite sure where the member came from with the $92 million.
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay, I'll present those to you.
I'm looking at full-time equivalents now, and a number of committee members have raised this. I understand you don't set policy, but you enact it. Around greenhouse gas reductions, you have a loss within two or three years of a significant number of positions. Who are those people and what do they do?
10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment
I'll ask Mr. Craig Ferguson to provide you with the contextual information.
10 a.m.
Director, Strategic Development Policy Coordination Branch, Department of the Environment
I'm not sure I'm going to be able to answer the member's question adequately.
10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment
If it would be all right, perhaps I'll just call on Mr. Alex Manson to provide that.
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Of course.
For the committee's context here, we have 55 full-time equivalents in this program area, reduced to 14 within a two- or three-year period.
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Alex Manson Acting Director General, Domestic Climate Change Policy, Department of the Environment
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Alex Manson and I'm director general of the domestic climate change policy at Environment Canada.
I don't have the numbers right in front of me, Mr. Cullen, but I believe the decrease you're seeing in there is what Ms. Ruta was referring to earlier, and that is, there are a number of initiatives in the department, and particularly in the climate change area, that are funded to the end of this fiscal year, and the government will be making decisions about what should be continuing. So what you're seeing in there are reductions from what we refer to as B-based funding that terminates at the end of this fiscal year.
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
So let me understand this. If the government has set out these prediction numbers, then I'm assuming that's what the government is--
10 a.m.
Acting Director General, Domestic Climate Change Policy, Department of the Environment
Those are what would be in our A-base, in our reference levels.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
Acting Director General, Domestic Climate Change Policy, Department of the Environment
It just indicates that decrement or that reduction is in funding that terminates during this fiscal year.
If I could go back, the government indicated that $2 billion from Budget 2005 is earmarked for the development of a made-in-Canada environmental plan. When decisions are made on how that money is going to be spent, then it will be put into the reference levels of departments, and I presume some of that money will come to Environment Canada. Until these decisions are made, I can't tell you whether it will be 55 or whether it will be 65, or what it will be in the out years.
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Just so I understand--and I'm not casting aspersions here, but these numbers aren't accurate.
10 a.m.
Acting Director General, Domestic Climate Change Policy, Department of the Environment
No, they're--
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You're saying there's a certain amount of money out there that the government hasn't allocated to spending yet--
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.
I don't want to stall the discussion--there's good discussion happening--but I want to remind the committee that we're talking about main estimates, not supplementary, so discussion needs to be staying on the main estimates.
Thank you.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
Mr. Cullen, you can't expect the witness to try to project decisions that haven't been made yet to that $2 billion.
10 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Chair, my only point was that the projections have been made, and I'm just curious as to why and what the reasoning is and where it comes from. The government can't plan just for this immediate year. It's always--
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
But not on the main estimates.... I think that's the point, and that's what we're talking about. With the supplementals you'll see more of a game plan.