Evidence of meeting #3 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was review.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Eugene Morawski
Kapil Khatter  Director, Health and Environment, Pollution Watch
Derek Stack  Executive Director, Member of CEN, ENGO Delegate, Great Lakes United
Tim Williams  Committee Researcher

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Part of that discussion we had was that this could be something we should in fact be emulating in Canada. Therefore, I think that's another thing we need to.... I find that very important. That piece of legislation needs to be looked at while doing the review of CEPA. Is it fair to say that was the case?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Health and Environment, Pollution Watch

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

The last question, Mr. Godfrey.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON

I have one question. During your presentation you said that one of the things that had changed since CEPA was first brought in was a greater sensitivity in measurement of toxins to the point you could do trace elements and you could find things that you couldn't find before. Has there been a corresponding increase in understanding of exactly what the risk factors are? In other words, do we have a better sense, for example, of respiratory disease, and what causes what, than we do of carcinogens? Is our knowledge of what causes what on the human health side keeping pace with our ability to measure increasingly small particles of noxious things?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Health and Environment, Pollution Watch

Dr. Kapil Khatter

I don't think it's actually a question of us being able to.... I'm sure the technical ability to measure smaller amounts is there. I guess I meant we're finding that low doses are potentially more harmful or more significant than we thought they were. There are “windows of vulnerability”, and when a pregnant woman, for instance, is exposed to something is as important as the amount she is exposed to, or almost as important.

What some of the new studies are seeing is something called a U-curve. You would think the lower the dose, the less the problem, and the higher the dose, the more the problem, but we're actually seeing sometimes that low doses can cause problems at the molecular level that aren't caused by higher doses...and then cause it again. It's very confusing for people.

We already know that with cancer-causing things there is what we call “no threshold” for a carcinogen. Small doses of cancer-causing things at the wrong time can kick off a cancer. So we need to do what we can to get anything that's carcinogenic out of the system.

For a lot of the other things that are developmental or reproductive, part of the difficulty in being able to do the cause and effect sometimes is the lag time between exposure and when the effects happen. That is why we tend to support the precautionary approach that says we shouldn't be exposing people to these things when we don't need to.

As much as air pollution is clear and easy for us now, if someone has an asthma attack, it's harder for us to make the link to cancer, learning disabilities, an increase in autism, and those kinds of things further down the road. So we need to act in a preventative manner to make sure that those problems aren't related to environmental contamination.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Thank you.

Mr. Rodriguez, do you have a question?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

No.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

I'd certainly like to thank our guests. I think you've done a good job of kicking off some of the areas we need to look at. As you are probably aware, we're now going to listen to what the bureaucrats tell us and what industry tells us. Then we'll have a meeting to set a path as to how exactly we're going to proceed. So thank you very much for kicking this off.

The meeting is adjourned.