Environment Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So we're going to debate the issue. What's left to debate?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We have four people with their final comments. We will excuse Madame Fraser and carry on.

Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I'll stick to that and stay away from the structure, as others suggest and as you've advised.

I do note, Madam Fraser, that you're appointing Ron Thompson as interim commissioner. I assume it's within your mandate to make that appointment. I suppose it's your role.

But I need some clarification. I think I understand how this works, but as to the role of Ms. Gélinas, I take it she is your employee; an employee of the Auditor General's office.

[Sheila Fraser]

That's correct.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

So you have the authority to appoint her, to have an agreement when she departs, and that type of thing.

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I guess I'll get to the chase then and be really frank with my question. Does the government have any authority to appoint...was the government involved in this kind of thing?

[Sheila Fraser]

Absolutely not. The government respects the independence of the Office of the Auditor General. We are what is known as a separate employer. We hire our own people. We have our own classifications, and government has nothing to do with our personnel issues.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Do they have any influence in respect to your--

[Sheila Fraser]

No.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Those are my questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I do not want to discuss the underlying issue, but it seems to me that... Ms. Fraser was courteous enough to come to the committee to tell us her decision. I do not think we should turn on the cameras, as my colleague, Mr. McGuinty, suggests. I think we should take note of her decision and allow her to make her public announcement as she sees fit. However, we could ask Ms. Fraser to come back to the committee, not on February 15th but tomorrow, to explain this decision. In that way, Ms. Fraser could make her announcement this afternoon. I do not know what I have on my schedule or what committee meetings are planned, but we could ask Ms. Fraser to come back tomorrow to explain her position. We can have a broader discussion of this matter at that time. I do not know what you think about this, but I think that that would strike a balance between what Ms. Fraser is suggesting and the open discussion we want to have, not in three weeks, but rather as quickly as possible.

[Sheila Fraser]

I would be pleased to appear before the committee at whatever time suits you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa, can you tell me what time Bill C-30 committee meets tomorrow?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

It meets from 9 o'clock on Thursday. Tomorrow is Wednesday, so we're not meeting tomorrow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Go ahead, just on the topic, Mr. Scarpaleggia. And then we'll get right to Mr. Bigras' question.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I believe it's on the topic. I guess I'm thinking of how you're going to deal with the media today.

First of all, how much time was left in Ms. Gélinas' mandate?

[Sheila Fraser]

She does not have a mandate.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Oh, she doesn't have a five-year mandate.

[Sheila Fraser]

No.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Okay. Well, that's an interesting answer.

Second, how will you answer questions about whether she left as a result of a disagreement with the direction she was taking? More precisely, how will you answer that question when people say that her departure is juxtaposed with a desire to look at the mandate of the commissioner, in a sense? How will you answer that?

This is so we can be on the same wavelength in some way.

[Sheila Fraser]

As I'm sure you're aware, we cannot discuss personnel issues in any way, so I will not be making any comments about her departure. She has asked that we keep her plans confidential, and I intend to respect that.

As for the review, given the fact that she is leaving that position, we said that this appears to be kind of an opportunity at this time, before just going ahead with the search, to ask what the profile is that is needed for the commissioner. It has been 12 years since the creation of the commissioner. We hear from certain groups that there are expectation gaps. We'd like to hear from parliamentarians whether that is the case. What is the profile? Can we do our work better?

There are a number of issues that I'd like to bring forward to the committee to explain why we think a review would be appropriate at this time, and we obviously want parliamentarians to be involved in that. So I guess you could say that the departure has kind of created an opportunity to sort of reflect upon that.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

We take you at your word, of course, that there's no connection, really, other than that it's an opportunity--

[Sheila Fraser]

That's right. That's right.