Environment Committee on Jan. 31st, 2007

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Yes, I will be making a motion. I move that if that person is not willing to make that apology, that this committee investigate and that the clerk investigate and provide a report back to this committee of where that breach happened.

As you said, we are creatures of our own making, and that's what the Speaker would rule.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Is that the motion then?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

That is my motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

That is the motion.

Is there discussion?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

My motion came first. It takes precedence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

That motion will certainly deal with your motion.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, you have to deal with a motion. In fact, a motion to adjourn is a priority motion. You're telling us that you didn't have a motion from Mr. Warawa until just now after I made my motion, and therefore the motion that I made takes precedence and must be voted on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I said it was sort of a motion.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Yes, he hadn't completed yet. He still had the floor.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I was given the floor by the chair, so you can't say he had the floor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

What I am saying is that I'm accepting Mr. Warawa's motion, which can be debated and voted on. If you want to appeal my decision, Mr. Regan, you can, and of course a vote can be taken on that.

Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I'd just like to comment.

Maybe there's a way to shortcut this, because my question to David before was not grabbed out of thin air.

Dennis Bueckert, of The Kingston Whig-Standard, says:

But Liberal environment critic David McGuinty said Fraser made it clear to the environment committee at a private meeting yesterday that she felt Gélinas had been taking on too much of an advocacy role.

The clerk can go to Dennis Bueckert and confirm the fact that Mr. McGuinty is reporting, out of this place, stuff that occurred in a “private meeting”. It occurred here.

So I think we actually have it on the record as to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think you're going further now.

I think Mr. Warawa's motion is that the clerk investigate. Then, of course, if we agree to have that investigation, it then gets reported to the House and the Speaker rules on it. That's where we are right now.

Is there any discussion on that specific motion?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

First of all, I commend you on the attitude you're bringing to this issue.

Mr. Chair, I've been around Parliament Hill for awhile, as a staffer and now as a member of Parliament, and I remember when your party was in opposition. I was working on the Hill and there were leaks from members of your party, leaks of important committee documents. Those were resolved in a collegial way and with good faith, and nobody was launching witch hunts as a result.

Mr. Warawa says trust has been undermined. I'd like to pick up on Mr. Harvey's point at the beginning. Quite frankly, I agree with Mr. Harvey. When we decided retroactively to publish the proceedings of yesterday's in camera meeting, quite frankly, I didn't mind that myself, but who is going to take an in camera meeting seriously? If trust has been undermined, it's by the fact that we, as a committee, have decided retroactively to divulge what happened in camera yesterday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

With the agreement of the witness, of course.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

It doesn't matter. That's irrelevant, I believe.

Before we become too pious, I think we should just look at the whole situation. By pursuing this matter, Mr. Warawa is in fact undermining the trust in this committee. How can we work together if we go on a witch hunt?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Regan, very briefly.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Very briefly, yes.

I agree with the general thrust of what my friend and colleague has just said, except for one thing. The nature of yesterday's meeting was to give us advance notice of something that was publicly announced later. That's the reason we unanimously agreed to make the meeting's records public--because of the fact that the subject matter became public. There was no reason to keep it secret anymore. That's the distinction we can make between this and other kinds of in camera meetings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

The problem is the two-whatever or the twelve-whatever to the three o'clock.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Oh, I agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

The issue is relatively simple. I believe that Ms. Fraser has put her trust in us by coming to present to us what she was going to announce in the afternoon concerning Ms. Gélinas. I believe we all appreciated getting that information before everyone, in that it was even out of respect for us that she did it, and she formally asked us that it be done in camera and that this information not be circulated before she had her press conference. I understand her: she didn't want the information to come out all wrong before she had her press conference. She showed respect by coming and making this presentation to us. However, if we disclose information, I believe that the next time someone comes here, there will be some reluctance. Then we'll understand why not all the information is given to us. That's an effect.

When I asked Ms. Fraser earlier whether it was possible for something that happened in camera subsequently to become public, if that set a precedent... Once again, if someone comes and makes a presentation to us in camera, that in camera meeting must be respected. Otherwise, it's as though we had asked someone to tell us a secret, but we went and told it to everyone. It becomes a little complex. I believe it's a matter of trust. Perhaps I'm a little naive, but that's how things work, I believe.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We should be able to go to a vote now. I think we've heard enough.

Mr. Warawa, do you want to close the debate on your motion?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Can you remind us of the motion we're going to vote on, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes. Could you read the motion, Mr. Warawa, please--slowly.