Environment Committee on May 15th, 2006

[Cécile Cléroux]

With regard to improving the efficiency of the consultations, I'm sure the ministry will want to be able to have an open discussion with you about the path forward.

As for the implementation of the act up to now, we have been respecting the obligation to have consultation regarding the act. One of the earlier questions was about the time delay involved in putting anything forward. One issue--if I can call it the perverse effect, if that's the right expression--is that when we consult people we need to allow for delays. We are not trying to say that in order to remove the consultation. We believe consultation is a fundamental principle of an act like CEPA, and one that we have to keep. So my comment is not that we should remove it, but only that it creates delays.

We are all learning the best approach for making sure the engagement with different communities and stakeholders is a constructive one that benefits us and ensures that we can really collect the information to be able to act on it, while providing the different stakeholder groups we are consulting with information they can really comment on. It's an ongoing process.

The consultation mandated under the act has been completely complied with. We consult on a very regular basis with different stakeholders; the act requires us to do so at each step. Is it as fully efficient as it can be? There is always a continuous improvement approach to make sure we do our best.

[Paul Glover]

May I?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, go ahead.

[Paul Glover]

I think that the committee, as it embarks on this review, will hear a significant amount about this. When we officials went cross-country to talk with industry, it came up regularly. One of the realities that we heard is that CEPA is not what could be described as “citizen friendly”. It's a rather dense piece of legislation.

The last question is about “CEPA toxic” and what it means when something is inherently toxic but not “CEPA toxic”. How do you rationalize that? They were interested in the broad objectives of the departments of the government and in how well we are meeting those. So where is the reporting on state of health and state of environment?

There are levels of conversation that I think people are interested in, and I would support Cécile's response. We are meeting the requirements of the act. I think what we're finding is that people want different discussions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you.

Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I thank the witnesses for taking part in our meeting.

You've painted quite a complete picture of federal environmental regulations. We know that this is an area of shared jurisdiction. I'd like to know what your perception is of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, which we are currently reviewing, with regard to gas emissions, and everything to do with air pollution. Do you think that the legislation covers this properly or should it be improved in this regard?

[Cécile Cléroux]

Currently, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act gives us powers that enable us to intervene regarding all atmospheric emissions in virtually all fields. Whether we're talking about so-called "toxic" substances or the emission of more common gases that are part of the elements that we all have to deal with, we feel that the current legislation gives us the powers necessary to take required action to improve the quality of the air that our fellow citizens breathe. As far as this is concerned, it's always possible to improve the legislation, but we do think that we have most of the powers necessary to do our job.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Therefore, the Act does cover this sector well. Of course, it is a matter of shared jurisdiction. Therefore, when it comes to aboriginal communities we're still within the federal family. With regard to water, there is no framework or established standards for aboriginal communities. Could this particular legislation cover this sector?

[Cécile Cléroux]

I will let my colleague from Health Canada respond regarding the quality of drinking water. Do you also want us to address sewage? If so, we will respond to the second part.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Yes, the quality of drinking water and sewage.

[Paul Glover]

With regard to drinking water, the standard is the same for everyone. My group sets standards for all of Canada.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

But those are recommendations that don't become law.

[Paul Glover]

No they are guidelines.

It's a guideline. All the provinces use those guidelines and so do first nations communities.

The same guidelines are issued for all populations in Canada.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

But there's no enforcement. It's a guideline, so you take it or not.

[Paul Glover]

That's not correct. There is the system to verify and analyze drinking water on each reserve. That's why we are now aware of the serious problems faced by aboriginals. There is an evaluation process for the implementation of guidelines.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

There is a follow-up process, but it is not an act.

[Paul Glover]

There is an inspection process.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Has there been any consideration of making regulations to establish a standard on drinking water?

[Paul Glover]

No because we feel that the system operates properly. The guidelines are based on science. Every jurisdiction has recommendations and is currently implementing them.

[Cécile Cléroux]

With regard to sewage, work has been underway with the provinces for the past three or four years with a view to implementing one of these famous Pan-Canadian standards. We are on the verge of signing an agreement with all the provinces. This is part of the recommendations that will be submitted shortly to all ministers. With this recommendation, we will be in a position to act in a concerted manner in order to have a common basis throughout the country. There's been much progress in this work, and we're very pleased to see that there is now convergence for all communities in this country.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment—

[Cécile Cléroux]

Exactly.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

—there's an attempt to establish a Pan-Canadian standard for sewage disposal.

[Cécile Cléroux]

Yes, for sewage that is disposed of in fresh water streams or in salt water.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Is it necessary to have this kind of measure with regard to air?