Environment Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The 48-hour principle currently applies in the House. Those are two working days, not calendar days. We are talking about two nights. If there is a meeting at 9:00 a.m., then there is one day when all members have been given notice of the motion. That allows them to work on the motion or plan their future business. This is not something from Mars, it is a rule used in the House and is actually quite simple. On a Friday, a motion must be submitted before 2:30 p.m. On all other days of the week, the deadline is 6:00 p.m. That means that, if you want to move a motion on Thursday, you have to submit it by 6:00 p.m. on the previous Tuesday.

Besides, there are always two days between committee meetings. The motion therefore does not change much. However, it ensures that everyone has had at least one day to read and work on the motion. As parliamentarians, we need to have that time to work on a motion. Everyone stands to gain by being able to work on a motion.

Saturdays and Sundays are not considered working days. That means that if you want to move a motion on Tuesday morning, you have to file it at the latest on Friday at 2:30 p.m.

I believe that this is a fair proposal, and it would give parliamentarians at least one day to properly work on a motion or do research and obtain information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Should we ask the clerk to come back with wording that covers the 24 hours, and the time, now that we've heard the arguments? He can base it on his experience, and we can see if that will be it. I think we're all saying the same thing.

I'll hear Mr. Warawa

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Chair, procedurally I think I moved that 48 hours be slotted in there. I'm willing to change that, as a friendly amendment, to 24 hours. I think that's what I'm hearing. But I want to make sure we're clear. It would be very encouraging if there was consensus on at least something here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Well, we had the meals, so we--

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

That's true.

What I'm seeing is 24 hours from when the clerk sends it. So if the clerk sends it at 6 or 7 p.m., I have 24 hours. It should be 24 hours before I deal with it the next day. If he sends it out at 9 o'clock and it needs translation, and it's 9 or 10 o'clock the next morning, it won't be dealt with until 24 hours after it has been sent to me. I may need about three, four, or eight hours before I actually get it, but once the clerk sends it, we have 24 hours. That would be a minimum.

In the past we had the Liberals sending motions the night before, we would start committee, and then they would reverse the agenda. There were a lot of shenanigans, and it created havoc in the committee. We had witnesses who appeared and were told sorry, you can't witness. They were sent walking while ignoring the expense of bringing them here. I don't want that happening. It wasn't fair. It wasn't right. It created a huge problem, not only for the committee but for the witnesses.

So 24 hours is reasonable. I suggested 48, but 24 is fine, provided that once it's distributed I have 24 hours to deal with it. I think that's reasonable. Giving any member less than 24 hours to deal with it, which includes maybe sleep time, I think is patently unfair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

What I've heard, if I might translate, is that if the clerk sets a deadline or we set a deadline here of four o'clock, let's say, for when he has to receive the motion, it would then be 24 hours from that point, minimum. If we say “when it is sent out”, I could see the argument coming back that “I didn't get mine”, and “my fax machine was broken”, or “my e-mail system was broken”, or whatever. But we can ask the clerk when he received that motion, and it is then 24 hours.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

That's 24 hours after it is sent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

If it is when it's sent.... Mr. Warawa, I believe you are saying 24 hours from when it is received and filed with the clerk.

There's where we are. Do we want the clerk to—

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Do we want to vote on the other way?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

We have to give the clerk direction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Regan is next, then Mr. Cullen.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chairman, I move that the motion be amended by adding, after the word “notice” in the first line—I'm waiting for the clerk to be ready—

, being a 24-hour period which commences with filing with the clerk,

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You are saying “that 24 hours notice” and then what you've added.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

In other words, it would read as follows:

That 24 hours notice, being a 24-hour period which commences with filing with the clerk, be required for any substantive motion to be considered

etc.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This hits the mark, because the question of this is about responsibility to our staff, who are often submitting these motions on our behalf. They need to know what the firm deadline is for them to have it in. That clarifies for everybody when you have to have it in. There are no shenanigans about receiving or not receiving and all the rest. It's clean and simple, and I think we should vote on it so that we can finish this off.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Is 4 p.m. a fair time?

No? Do you not want a time?

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

No, Chair, because if you submit it at 6 p.m., then 24 hours passes by, and normally if we have any committee meeting, it's starting at 6, so the later you file it, the later you can't....

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

For fairness to the clerk—

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

You can't know where the 24 hours is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

The clerk has to have a time. The clerk is not going to sit here 24 hours a day waiting for motions.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

No, but the point is that the clock starts from when he gets it, and it cannot be considered by the committee until 24 hours after that. If you submit it in the middle of the night, it isn't valid until the middle of the night 24 hours later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

No, but he doesn't receive it then. How are you—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You don't have to wait a day and a half, essentially, right?