Environment Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

It's because of those reasons, Mr. Chair, that I would like to amend this to specifically add the parliamentary secretary to this subcommittee. I think it's vital.

That has not been voted on yet, and I want to specifically articulate that, because I think it's important to my aspirations as a member. I don't want you to violate neutrality. I want you to sit on a subcommittee that has a government member on it to articulate the position of members like me on that committee. I also think it's important that it be a parliamentary secretary, because they have intimate knowledge that I don't have as a government member. I think that's vital if you're going to be making decisions.

Mr. Chair, I--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We have had an amendment to remove the parliamentary secretary. Now we have an amendment to add the parliamentary secretary. I think you've heard Mr. Watson's reasons, and I would ask you then to vote on that particular amendment, which is that we add to this list the parliamentary secretary.

Those in favour?

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a question. What is being proposed? Is it the structure we had last time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, we're going back to the structure we had last time with the parliamentary secretary on that list, as you had from our last--

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Have we not voted on that?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You mean this motion would propose that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

This motion would propose that, and we have to vote on that. That is to add the parliamentary secretary to the list you see on this.

(Motion negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Back to the main motion.

Mr. Harvey, I think you had your hand up.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I am trying to find a way so that the government can have a voice in the debate. We are in a democracy. I have often heard several...

[A voice]

[Editor's Note: Inaudible]

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would ask my colleagues to listen a bit more carefully.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

It is Mr. Watson who interrupted you.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I have a hard time seeing how you can justify and explain the fact that, in a parliamentary system, the governing party has no voice in the Steering Committee. I cannot justify that. How can the opposition—

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

It is what you proposed.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Each time you have spoken, I've listened. I would ask that you show the same kind of respect. Is it agreed?

I am saying that I cannot understand how the government can be excluded from taking part in a debate. How is it that it can be silenced and not even allowed to vote? A motion to censure the government could even be adopted unanimously. That is beyond me.

I realize that you are taking advantage of the fact that you have a majority opposition to set the agenda. I can understand that, but I believe there are lines that should not be crossed, such as muzzling the government, preventing it from taking part in debate and withdrawing its right to vote. You are using the chair's position to neutralize him and prevent the government from speaking out. I have a very hard time understanding that.

We have offered to appoint someone other than the parliamentary secretary to speak on behalf of the government. You have voted against both Jeff Watson and myself, as possible replacements for the parliamentary secretary. I see Mr. McGuinty is quite busy reading the newspaper, as is Mr. Regan. If that is how you operate, it is very sad.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Maybe we need a few minutes to think about this.

Can we go on to some of the others and come back to this?

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Chair, call the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I used the analogy of building before. I think it's a good analogy to use to try to help understand what is going on here. For us to build that foundation that I spoke of earlier...if the plans call for rebar in that foundation and Mr. Regan is saying, hurry up, forget the rebar, we have a foundation that is not as strong. As we build this beautiful house on this foundation, we have a structure that can crumble and jeopardize the whole structure if we do not build on solid ground and a strong foundation.

Mr. Chair, what I believed in having talked with some of my colleagues across the way is that we wanted to look at solutions, that the game of tactics and the game of chess, those days, were over and there was a willingness to work, particularly after hearing the encouragement of the environment commissioner. He came and told us that we need to find out why the previous government did not meet the targets, why they made commitments and plans and nothing happened. We were challenged to ask the departments why. I think we need to get the environment commissioner back.

It wasn't that many months ago that I came back with some of my colleagues across the way from Berlin at the Globe G8 plus 5. I want to share with the committee what I heard and learned about some of the solutions that we were encouraged to debate here in Canada--carbon sequestration and clean coal energy. We were even challenged to talk about nuclear energy and carbon sinks with a growing forest and what we can do out in British Columbia. I met with some people there and shared with them the challenges we have in Canada with the mountain pine beetle, which has killed so many trees. If we harvest them and replant, we have a growing forest and we now create a carbon sink.

Those are some of the things that I was hoping we were going to talk about, positive things that are solutions to deal with the issue of pollution, climate change, and the environment--that we can provide clean drinking water, that we will reduce the--

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Excuse me, Mr. Warawa, Mr. Regan has a point of order.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I have to ask about the relevance. Mr. Warawa was talking about what would be decided by, or proposed by, a subcommittee and decided by the committee, in terms of what we would study, as opposed to the nature of the question before the committee. I would ask you to keep him to the topic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think, Mr. Regan, that the problem is the concern about a motion coming out of the subcommittee without the government's having a full voice on it. That's the concern. He's using examples of issues that might involve that situation.

The rules in this place say that as long as there is debate on a motion, I can't shut it down. I believe he is giving you an example, and I would ask Mr. Warawa to make the example as brief as he can, so that we can carry on.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will make it quite brief. The point I wanted to make is that the subcommittee is an important committee, and if that subcommittee wants to be a valuable part of this environment committee and avoid rehashing and causing a problem for this committee, it has to have proper representation. I have shared some of the things that are very important to me and I hope to other members of the committee--topics and solutions that we will take a serious look at. Those are the reasons, Mr. Chair, that I have expressed so much concern. I'll end my comments with that.

I'm very disappointed that what I've read in the media appears to be true; it appears that there is a concerted effort by the Liberals, and the Bloc supporting the Liberals, to try to stall this committee and also to stall and keep the government from participating. I find that very disappointing; I wish we were working together.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Go ahead, Mr. Regan.