Environment Committee on April 7th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We even had a box full of everybody's name. We would have drawn all the names if there was some conflict. So we certainly—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

For what purpose?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Because if everybody wanted to speak at the same time, how would we decide?

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to understand. Mr. Harvey was originally on the list and then left because he had to go to an interview.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

He had to go, yes. I asked to swap.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Just to be clear, did Mr. Warawa ask for Mr. Harvey to be then put on the list at the end so that when we ran out of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

At the closing of his speech, he did ask that Mr. Harvey—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This is just so I understand the process. Can one member of the House of Commons put another member of the House of Commons on a speaking list? That doesn't make any sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Harvey asked the clerk and me when he left, “Can I swap?” I said I would bring that up to the committee rather than making an arbitrary decision. I brought it up to the committee. Mr. Bigras was the first person to say no.

When we discussed that, Mr. Harvey said, “Well, if that doesn't happen, can you put me to the bottom of the list?” I said “Yes. Yes, I can. You're going out. I know where you're going. When you come back you're on the list.”

Now, if he hadn't gotten back in time, anybody else could have been put on the list. But there were no hands, so no one else was on the list at that point in time, other than Mr. Harvey. That's why I went to Mr. Harvey after Mr. Warawa.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Am I to understand that the fact that we refused to allow Mr. Warawa and Mr. Harvey to swap turns meant that Mr. Harvey was taking off the list? Is that what you are saying?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

No. It bumped him to the bottom of the list.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

It seems to me that, at that point, he should have requested that his name be put on the list again. Yet he asked to go on the list again after Mr. McGuinty called for the question on clause 10.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Just to clarify, you can't call the vote. Once you've exhausted the speaking list, the chair then calls, “Shall it be voted on?”, “Shall it carry?” That's the only time you can vote on that. Of course, I didn't call for that, so I have to exhaust the speaking order. That's not a ruling; that's just how it works. It's really not something we can even debate, because that's just how it works. You cannot--I can't, you can't--simply arbitrarily end a person's speaking. I can try to keep them on topic. On clause 10, I can plead with them to stay on clause 10. That's how it has to be run so you have some order.

There are other things, but as I said, this list is open, and it's open until we exhaust all speakers.

Yes, Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I guess the point is that we did exhaust all speakers. You might have chosen to say, “Seeing no speakers on the list, should I call the vote?” Mr. McGuinty simply reminded you that this would be a good time to call the vote because there were no speakers on the list, because we had already ruled that you couldn't have a substitution and Mr. Harvey had to reapply. You can't just anticipate that maybe he'd like to.

So I think what we were--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

He did reapply, Mr. Godfrey. Can we move on?

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

After Mr. McGuinty asked you to call the vote--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

He can't call the vote.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

No, but he was asking you to, because that's what you should have done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa is next, and then Mr. Harvey.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Chair, we've spent now about fifteen minutes having members of the opposition attempt to end the opportunity for members of this committee to speak. Again, the analogy is that they're trying to shove something down Canadians' throats.

Chair, I think they need to obey the rules, and the rules are that anybody on this committee can speak. I encourage them to speak and not try to interrupt.

I made it very clear in my closing comments, as was pointed out, that I knew Mr. Harvey was coming back. He asked the clerk and you to put him on the list--as you said, quite properly--so he's on the list. My closing comments were that I had more to say. The rules are that I have that opportunity to speak to Bill C-377, clause 10, before we have a vote. As long as we have speakers, those are the rules.

Chair, if the members don't agree with that, maybe we should wait until we get the blues back to clarify so they can see that I did say that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Chairman, when you make a list, you make it based on the proper speaking order. When I left, I was second on that list. I asked to swap turns so that Mark would take my place, which was refused. Incidentally, you will have noticed that when we ask for the floor, we raise our hands. We don't ask the audience whether we can have the floor; we make it known to the Chair that we would like to speak. Is that what we do, yes or no?

I informed the Chair that I wished to be on the list, and enquired as to whether we could switch the order of the turns, so that instead of being second, third or fourth, I would be last on the list of speakers on clause 10.

When you raise your hand to ask for the floor, of whom are you requesting permission to speak? Not me; rather, the Chair and the clerk. No one else. Before leaving, everyone saw me go and speak with the clerk. I didn't want to interrupt the discussion. I did that out of respect for all the work that has been done. That's all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm not sure we're going to settle this. We've listened to points of order. I'm just simply telling you that anybody can be on that list until the actual vote is called, by me, on clause 10. That is what it says in the book, and I will follow that book as I have in the past. We can't just change the rules because we want to change the rules. We've told you Mr. Harvey's situation honestly, why he was next on the list. You can accept that or not accept that. Obviously that is how it happened. If he'd known he wasn't going to be allowed to speak, he then could have easily said he would abandon his television appearance in order to speak. But he thought he would be on that list. He was put on that list immediately, and there he is on the list. Anybody else can go on that list, and when there are no more speakers I will ask if there are any more speakers, and then we'll carry on.

I'm not sure if we have a vote tonight. We can carry on here as long as you want. We have a motion to adjourn from Mr. Warawa. That's not debatable. We'll suspend for a brief moment before we vote on the motion to adjourn.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We are now at the point where Mr. Warawa has made a motion to adjourn.

(Motion negatived)

That motion is defeated, so we will carry on.

The speaker is Mr. Harvey, and then I have Mr. Warawa and Mr. Petit. Does anyone else want to be added to that list?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, you might as well just add their names and double them up and triple them up again.