Environment Committee on April 9th, 2008

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Why didn't you rule out the minister, then? What could be more antagonistic than that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You know--

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Really, it's a PowerPoint presentation. You cannot say that you can't have.... It's a PowerPoint presentation. It's a visual aid.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You know, I could reread one of the clauses about the road down which we're proceeding. It's not a road I want to take. I don't know why you would want to do that. And you're right, you can use whatever you want. You can wear a costume if you want. Anybody can. But I'll tell you, I'm getting pretty tired of this from all sides. I really think we need to try to get to where we want to go. Maybe by being a little bit more sophisticated, we can get to where we want to go. That's what all of us want. That's what we came here for.

If you think that helps to make things go better and ultimately come to a peace--I don't think it does--fine, have your props.

Let's go back to Mr. Watson.

Mr. Watson, please address the chair and keep on the--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

On a point of order, sir, you gave me no chance to respond whatsoever.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, Mr. McGuinty, go ahead.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'm just going to go back to what you told me in the last meeting, sir, when I asked repeatedly of the clerk to report to Canadians who are watching these proceedings the extent to which the government is deliberately filibustering this debate.

I'll read back exactly what you said to me, sir. I respect your views. You said to me, “I'm not going to keep a clock running. So you can continue to do that, that's fine.”

For the people who are watching today who want to know, I don't share your sense of good faith in the government MPs at all, Mr. Chair. If we had any inkling of good faith at all, we would move forward, and these three clauses would be dealt with in the next 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa.

Let's try to get to debate, if we can.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm speaking to the point of order raised by Mr. McGuinty.

The minister was invited to this committee. He was invited to this committee to speak to this committee, and he brought along a PowerPoint presentation, and he notified you and the clerk that he was going to do so.

[An hon. member]

Everybody does that.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

That is quite different, bringing a presentation to this committee, as opposed to the....

I'm on topic, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, you are, Mr. Warawa, but really, I would rather hear Mr. Watson talk about why we should or should not limit speakers to two minutes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I agree, Mr. Chair. I'm just, again, addressing an inaccuracy of Mr. McGuinty's, and I wish he would take his antics somewhere else.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Vellacott, very briefly, please.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

On the same point of order, I would appreciate comment from the clerk, who is a learned man in these affairs. He very well would probably report to us that props are not allowed in this place either.

It's pretty deceptive for this member to say, when any witness appears with a slate of slides or whatever graphics they provide to us, that it's a prop, in comparison with what he's doing there.

I think the clerk will probably confirm.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think everybody should understand that there's a point at which a chair feels things are simply out of order and in disorder and simply suspends the meeting, throws it back to the members, and says, “Go and fight your battle out behind the barn. Come back to me when you want me to reconvene the meeting.” I don't think anybody here wants to go there. I don't want to go there. But we are sliding there, whether we like it or not. I guess it's up to you now to make that decision.

I am now ready to hear Mr. Watson. Mr. Watson is going to speak to the motion. It's unlimited debate; everybody has an opportunity to speak and can speak to Mr. Cullen's motion.

Mr. Watson, you're first on our list. That list is an ongoing list, just so that everybody understands.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

On a point of order, Chair, are Mr. McGuinty's props permitted at the table, yes or no?

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

We either run by the rules or we don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

This is not the House—you're right—but I believe that this is antagonistic and that it threatens decorum.

So Mr. McGuinty, I will ask you to set that down. You can refer to it when you get the floor, but to have it sitting there.... I would ask you to remove it. The next thing we know, we'll have another prop, and then another prop. I don't believe that's going to create decorum.

I would ask you to set it down. I believe it does affect decorum. We're not at “the minister” at this point. We're about this committee's trying to deal with the motion put by Mr. Cullen in all sincerity.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, why don't we come to a compromise on this issue? Why doesn't the clerk, then, every hour upon the hour, simply remind the committee of the extent to which we have been filibustering this debate through the government members? Or we can prop this up once every hour to remind people who are watching and observers who are taking notes that in fact the government continues, hour after hour after hour.

I would remind you, sir, and the members of the government caucus that during the hearings in another committee, it was a regular feature of that committee that all of these members propped up a copy of the Gomery report for television reporters, in front of each of their microphones. It was never ruled out of order at the time. In fact, nobody complained about it. It's interesting now how the government is so deeply offended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. McGuinty, we're a long way from the record.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Could we, Mr. Chair, then, every hour—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

The other committee hit 32 hours—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Could we, every hour...? I'm not asking for a reckoning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'll tell you what the compromise is. I'll keep my watch and tell you at the beginning of each meeting that this is our...whatever hour of debate. That's a fair enough compromise. I'll do that; I'm not going to ask the clerk to do it.

But I would ask you to remove those, or I'm going to suspend at this point. I would ask you to remove them.