I'll get back to the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I was talking of freedom of speech and that this may be inconvenient. Obviously Mr. Cullen finds it inconvenient that members of Parliament exercise their full right and privilege to speak freely.
Mr. Chair, as I was trying to make the point earlier when I was interrupted by Mr. Cullen, the members opposite may feel that what they're doing, as I read here, is in the national interest or the aspirations of their constituents in trying to enforce their will with respect to this particular piece of legislation. But they can't interpret for the benefit of our constituents or what we may regard in the national interest, and that's why we have debate. Those matters are to be settled through debate. It's to be settled through a difficult calculus where members of Parliament interact with their own constituents on an ongoing basis. And ultimately the decisions for those will be rendered at election time. All members will stand accountable to their constituents for how they exercise their freedom of speech. Did they in fact do it in the interest of their constituents or in the national interest?
That's the beauty of our system, Mr. Chair. It's one of the reasons I oppose this motion. Two minutes per speaker per clause is a serious inhibition of a member's ability to speak in both the national interest and in the interest of constituents.
I don't pretend for a moment, for example, to try to interpret what the constituents in Mr. Cullen's riding want. I don't know how to perform that calculus, Mr. Chair. I don't live there. I don't circulate through the communities. In much the same respect, Mr. Cullen doesn't represent my constituency. He doesn't circulate through my communities. He doesn't know the people there. He doesn't know what they're thinking. If perhaps a constituent or two or maybe more write or phone Mr. Cullen, he may have some idea of what those specific constituents want. But dealing in the calculus of what my constituents want or what we deem to be in the national interest is something that is between a member of Parliament and the constituents.
Now, Mr. Chair, this motion of two minutes per speaker per clause is impinging on freedom of speech. There are reasonable limits to free speech both in society and in the House. We recognize that through our rules. In terms of the House of Commons, which is the cornerstone institution nationally speaking, Mr. Chair, we have the unique situation where reasonableness is limited in a much more generous fashion than in two minutes per speaker per clause.
There are limits--for example, closure on debate, when you bring free speech to a close. We recognize that's a tool that exists, but it's a prerogative of the crown; it's not a prerogative extended to the opposition. We have other limits. We do define certain limits for each stage of debate, that only a certain amount of debate can exist, but they're not draconian. Even in invoking closure, we don't suggest that it's two minutes per speaker in any fashion, Mr. Chair.
If the opposition considers it a flaw to the system that debate can continue in such a fashion as it's been continuing here at this committee, that's a flaw on the side of free speech, and I think that's something, Mr. Chair, that is incredibly important.
This is a bad motion, furthermore, Mr. Chair, this idea of two minutes per speaker per clause, because it ignores, as well, the fundamental place of rules and the importance of rules in society, in civilization, within our institutions. I'll elaborate on that a little. For example, Mr. Chair, our important documents recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law. The importance of rules, Mr. Chair, is the preamble to everything else, and it's important.
Those who have thought long and hard in setting up the institutions of our country and the direction we would go in said we would start with the supremacy of the rule of law--with rules. That is very significant foundational stuff. We're not talking about the stuff you build on a foundation; this is foundational stuff. It starts with rules.
This motion ignores the concept of rules. The rule of law exists, Mr. Chair. It was a very radical concept in its time, because it substituted the arbitrariness of one person's will over another, or even the will of a majority over a minority. It was a very radical concept when in history there was rule by kings and rule by despots. This was a very radical departure.
Two minutes per speaker per clause ignores the foundational aspect of rules, Mr. Chair. Our civilization is built on the cornerstone of the rule of law. It's one of the things I think would define the civility within civilization.
Furthermore, Mr. Chair, when we're talking about rules, the importance of rules, and why this motion is bad, we have rules for society that go beyond the principle of the rule of law, if we bore down into that. Our Constitution, the preamble of which sets out the importance of the rule of law, is a set of rules that define relationships between levels of government so that we can serve the people, among other things, and maintain peace and order. It's why rules are important, Mr. Chair.
This motion ignores the importance of rules.
In society we also have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We have a lot of talk about the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Mr. Chair. The Charter of Rights and the bills of rights that preceded it established inviolable relational rules for individuals as they interact within society. Mr. Chair, it's extremely important that we understand the importance of rules and why this motion is so bad.
Let's bore down even deeper into that. It's not just about the preamble to a constitution or the founding documents such as a constitution or, later, bills of rights or charters of rights, but about statute laws, Mr. Chair. They function within the charter framework and bore down into the details of what these relationships should look like.
Here parliamentarians enter into debate and enjoy free speech. They do these roles after elections with the consent of the people, not with the arbitrariness of imposing one's will or the majority's will over another.
Mr. Chair, it's important, even further down from that, that regulations bore down more deeply and more specifically into the rules that govern relationships. We have the court system to interpret these rules and the police and other law enforcement agencies to enforce the rules.
Rules aren't something peripheral to our civilization, Mr. Chair; they're foundational. They permeate every aspect of our institutions. They permeate every aspect of society, governing the relationships of people within society.
Mr. Chair, we have rules within Parliament. Your ruling earlier discussed the importance of rules within our parliamentary institutions. We have Standing Orders that define the rules of engagement and debate within our institutions. The committee also has rules, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, can we have a little bit of order at the committee, please?