Environment Committee on April 14th, 2008

[An hon. member]

It's because the PM is in Winnipeg.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think that rather than pursue this, our option would be to go to clause 10. We have three quarters of an hour left. We can go to clause 10; then on Thursday....

By then, hopefully, Mr. Warawa, I can give you the floor right off the top, and you could clarify this offer we've had from Mr. Cullen. Or we can adjourn and reconvene on Thursday.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

We just need to know whether, if we adjourn now, Mr. Warawa will be in a position to give a definitive response to this idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think I heard him say that with 48 hours he would be able to do so.

Am I interpreting that correctly, Mr. Warawa?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Again, I want to make sure that I have an opportunity to consider this and its ramifications. I wouldn't mind doing a little bit of research, so I'm asking for those 48 hours. In that spirit, hopefully we can adjourn to give me the adequate time.

We're meeting again on Thursday, and if we can come to a resolve and are comfortable with this direction, maybe we can move forward on—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. McGuinty, do you want a final word?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I don't understand what the parliamentary secretary is saying, Mr. Chair. Is he telling the committee that there is no negotiable room here, that he has his final answer from the minister's office or the PMO? Or is there—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think the answer is that some time is necessary.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

He doesn't have an answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

He's suggesting 48 hours. Our next meeting is Thursday, and I think I've explained to all members why that is—what is happening on Wednesday. We'll reconvene on Thursday, and I think probably—I would hope, Mr. McGuinty—that I could ask Mr. Warawa to take the very beginning of the meeting, if he would, to let us know, and we'll either carry on with all the clauses or you'll hear a different answer.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Let me ask, then, through you to the parliamentary secretary, if the answer from his 48 hours of consultation is no—and there's so much more to discuss with Bill C-377—does the government intend to table any amendments to this bill in any remaining clauses at all?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm not sure they know the answer to that question.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Could we ask them through you, Mr. Chairman?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

They must know whether they have amendments ready.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Through you to Mr. Warawa, could we know, in anticipation, are they planning to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa, I don't know whether you have an answer. I suggest you may not have an answer.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

There was an attempt to present an amendment, but it wasn't in both official languages, so that was pulled.

Chair, I would say Thursday we probably could provide an answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Okay. I think you've heard that, Mr. McGuinty, and I think probably I'm hearing from the committee—please tell me if I'm not—that to carry on today to debate clause 10 is not going to be all that productive. So I suggest that we do go to Thursday.

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I've heard from the government that, to be clear with all committee members, the government must be prepared to take yes for an answer at some point, and that what we are attempting to do.... To be clear, I've spoken with the minister and other members of this committee, and other members of this committee have spoken to the government—all channels have been open since the beginning of this filibuster—to try to find a way through this impasse. What was presented today may have been a surprise to the parliamentary secretary and to some of his colleagues, but it was not a surprise to his government as an option, nor to other committee members here, as a way to move forward.

Again, I've implored committee members previously, particularly Conservative committee members, that Canadians would not be proud of this action and will see goodness in all of us if we can find a way through this to allow the parliamentary committee to deal with the issue of the environment and allow the House of Commons to have a free and fair and democratic vote on Mr. Layton's bill. That is what we've been seeking from the beginning; that's what we'll continue to seek through this process.

I don't see the value, strategic or otherwise, for the government—and it made the claim to me directly that they are prepared—to waste the rest of the meetings until May 7 in this effort. I have no idea what the value in that is for the government, and I certainly see no value in it for the Canadian people.

So this is an option presented in good faith, despite experience, to all committee members to allow us to proceed in a dignified way and to deal with this democratically, as opposed to what we've seen for so many weeks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Just to clarify, Mr. Cullen, with the May 7 date, you know it will be reported back there, so you want it reported back some time between now and May 7. Is that correct?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The only condition is if the advice from the legislative clerk or from the table says that it somehow jeopardizes future considerations. I believe the Speaker will eventually have to rule on this. I know he is loath to direct committees. At some point or another, he will be setting precedent. He will either be sending a signal to parliamentarians that you can ruin, scuttle, legislation through delay and encouraging dissent and the fracture that he commented on, or he will have to set precedent saying, we want Parliament to work in good functioning order. Eventually this is going to land on his table and he's going to have to make a decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Cullen, we did send that message today from the committee, with unanimous support of all the committee. We sent a message that we need some changes. I would see this as being the second message, if you want, and a clear, constructive suggestion as to how we might get out of this. I see it as a positive move.

Unless there are more comments, I would like to--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Can I just ask the clerk, through you, Mr. Chair, what is the deadline for reporting the estimates back to the House of Commons?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

May 31.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's April 14 today and April 17 on Thursday, so the clock is ticking. We have a break week in there somewhere.