Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to all our witnesses.
My question is addressed to Mr. Mitchell. You raised a matter of interest to me. We have a bill before us. I believe you had an opportunity to examine the bill before coming here. I would like to refer you to subclause 5(2). Because I am a lawyer, I am a member of the Justice Committee, but since it is not meeting currently, I am available to deal with the environment. I would like to read you that clause, just to be sure that we all understand each other:
(2) The Government of Canada therefore adopts the following goals for Canada with respect to sustainable development:
Here I would like to jump to subparagraph (ii), which reads as follows:
(ii) by making efficient and effective use of energy and resources,
That is a provincial responsibility. Then, in subparagraph (iii), it says:
(iii) modifying production and consumption patterns to mimic nature's closed loop cycles, thus dramatically reducing waste and pollution,
Part of that is within the purview of the provinces.
In subparagraph (v), it reads:
(v) exercising good water stewardship [...]
I am referring here to the province of Quebec.
[...] by protecting and restoring the quantity and quality of fresh water in Canadian ecosystems;
That is a provincial responsibility.
Further on, in subclause (c), it reads:
(c) Canadian agriculture should provide nutritious and healthy foods, while safeguarding the land, water and biodiversities;
As far as I know, that is a matter that falls within the purview of the provinces. According to the civil law, the province owns the land, the mines and the water.
Then, in subclause (d), it talks about protecting ecosystems and, in the last line, it refers to “parks and wilderness areas;”.
Are we talking about federal parks there, or provincial parks? I live right next to a provincial park. What does this refer to? Do you see what I'm getting at? My question will come later, as a way of guiding you.
Then, in subclause (e), it says:
(e) Canadian cities should become vibrant, clean [...]
As far as I know, that is a municipal responsibility. Municipal bylaws are not in our area of jurisdiction.
My question for you is a simple one. If we pass a law—you beat me to the punch when you used this term, but I think you correctly read my thoughts—there is a legislative obligation. That means that if I dictate a law on sustainable development, if I start playing around with the water, we will begin to have problems in Quebec. If I start to play around with the forest, I will have problems in Lac Saint-Jean. If I start to play around with the mines, I will have problems in just about every province of the country. So, if I draft a piece of legislation, I am forcing someone to do something. Some provinces will cooperate, but others will dig in their heels because they see it as the government interfering in provincial areas of jurisdiction. The provinces will react very badly to that kind of situation, because they each have their own issues, either because of oil or water. A province does not like the federal government telling it that 194 of its lakes are polluted with blue algae, and then giving it money along with instructions about what to do. We also know that money is transferred to the provinces, but they do what they want with that money afterwards.
So, what should we do with this bill, which seems to be well written, but directly interferes in areas of provincial jurisdiction?
I would draw your attention to the items listed in Column 2 of Schedule 1. It talks about improving environmental efficiency. It talks about water consumption—that is a provincial responsibility. It talks about materials consumption—whatever that is—and energy consumption—once again, this is a provincial responsibility.
These are major issues. We are opening up a can of worms with this. In a way, this almost looks like a Soviet-style plan.
You made an important point earlier. You seem to agree…We all agree that the environment needs to be protected, but we don't want to create a worse problem than the one that already exists. We have ten provinces, three territories, and they all have their specific areas of jurisdiction.
Try and imagine what it was like when the First Nations negotiated the James Bay Agreement. Have you ever seen First Nations people negotiate? Well, I can tell you that's a lot harder than you may think. You will see what they say about it here; they will pay no attention to it. That is why I am interested in hearing your opinion. Ultimately, if we pass this, we have to expect that problems will arise sooner or later.