Environment Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Thank you, Dr. Weaver.

Merci, Monsieur Bellavance.

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Weaver, I find it hard to believe that China should have a free ride in this issue of global conscience. They have approximately $1.4 trillion in foreign currency reserves, and I think they can afford to buy just about anything they want as far as cleaning up the environment. I understand their local environmental difficulties, but as my colleague Mr. Watson said, it's an issue of priorities.

From what you've said, Dr. Stone, it is an inevitable conclusion in the short term that we are going to have a negative result, and even if we put the brakes on full stop we're going to leave track marks or skid marks for about a hundred years.

[Prof. John Stone]

I didn't say a hundred years.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Those are my words.

[Prof. John Stone]

Certainly the climate has a memory. It won't let us forget. We have altered the composition of the atmosphere by our introduction of greenhouse gases to levels that we haven't seen for close to a million years. We know what effect greenhouse gases have on the climate, and therefore it is very solid physics. We know that we can expect impacts as a result of what we've already done.

As the IPCC says in its report, some of those, regardless of what we do in the short term to reduce emissions.... That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to set ourselves on a path to reduce emissions.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I agree with you 100%. I think this government is well on its way.

I had the opportunity to visit Reykjavik during the polar conference in 2004. As a statistician I was shocked and left very concerned by what I saw at that conference and with these most recent reports.

When I sat on committee onBill C-30 I had the opportunity to listen to experts. They seemed to indicate that the biggest impact in Canada is going to be primarily on infrastructure and transportation, especially in our north, but along the lakes and oceans. We heard experts' evidence that indeed investments in transport and infrastructure would reduce greenhouse gas emissions towards green space. I remember one person from Quebec who gave us very good evidence that a real investment in infrastructure and transportation would mitigate the effect of climate change.

I know it's not enough, but this government has moved forward with an unprecedented amount of $33 billion to invest in infrastructure over the next seven years, because of the $126 billion that we've been left with in infrastructure deficits from the prior Liberal government.

Would you agree, Dr. Stone, that investment in infrastructure and transportation is a way to mitigate in part--not enough, but one of many fingers that can be used to help--greenhouse gas emissions, and that infrastructure and transportation will have the biggest impact for Canada overall in the short term?

[Prof. John Stone]

Thank you.

There are two parts to answer. There's an adaptation part and an emission reduction part.

On adaptation, we certainly have a lot of infrastructure that was designed for what we might call a stable climate. We no longer have that situation; we have a climate that is changing. So such things as sewage and drainage facilities are sometimes totally inadequate for the increase in severity and frequency of heavy precipitation that we can expect. So it's quite clear for infrastructure in central Canada.

The bigger worry, of course, is what you do about infrastructure in the north. A lot of it is built on frozen mud that is essential for the survival of many of these communities, but the mud is melting. If the ice roads can't be relied on to bring in supplies in the winter when they need them, then clearly they're going to be suffering.

So on the adaptation side you're absolutely right. On the mitigation side there's clearly a lot we can do, including enhancing the energy efficiency of transportation. There are lots of ways to do it. But the IPCC report talks about the enormous possibilities from buildings.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you very much.

I do have one further comment. As somebody who studied science in the U.S. for some period of time, and now I live in the north, I can assure you I understand and my constituents understand what's going to happen. But science is about a significant number of opinions, research, and researchers, just like a huge basket of apples. This government is going to do it a little bit differently from the last government. We want to find the tastiest apples, the ones that are going to be the most satisfying, and sometimes that means that some apples are left in the basket and some aren't.

I would suggest to you, Dr. Weaver, that we pick the best and the juiciest apples in order to get the best results for Canadians--

[Prof. Andrew Weaver]

Frankly, you haven't picked apples.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's all right; it was a metaphor.

Dr. Stone, what technologies are essential for this government to develop in order to move forward in a positive manner on the remediation and the reduction of greenhouse gases?

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Dr. Stone, give a very brief answer, please.

[Prof. John Stone]

I don't think I can give a very brief answer. It's a very difficult question. The bottom line is it almost doesn't matter, as long as you start. Do something. Start wherever you start. It doesn't matter. I think we're running out of time. I'm not an alarmist, but I think we're running out of time. So it really doesn't matter where you start, but there is certainly a lot you can do in clean coal technologies, in carbon capture and sequestration. Some people will say it's like sweeping the dirt under the carpet, but we have enormous possibilities in Canada. There's an enormous amount we can do for simply energy efficiency in the home, in supermarkets. But just start.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Are you familiar with our initiative on that in Alberta?

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

We'll be moving on to Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I do want to reiterate, you're doing a fantastic job.

First I want to say that I'm glad the constituents of Mr. Warawa, Mr. Watson, and Mr. Jean who reside in India and China are very happy that they're holding the governments over there accountable. Perhaps they want to run there on an environmental platform, but my constituents here expect me to work with the government on making sure that we do whatever we can within our power to have an environmental plan here.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Mr. Alghabra, I think if you'll direct your questions to our witnesses as opposed to the government, it would be helpful.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

What I want to do is first to thank Dr. Stone and Dr. Weaver for their contribution and their participation in this discussion today.

If they will allow me, I want to direct some of the questions to the officials here today. I want to give them the opportunity to answer some of our questions.

Gentlemen, I'm curious to know if you believe that we know everything we need to know about adaptation and the impact that global warming will have on our environment.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

On a procedural point, Chair and Clerk, we were invited to be here to speak to the IPCC process and our involvement in that, and I'm not sure if this is an appropriate question. I defer to the Chair.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Thank you, Mr. Gray.

Mr. Alghabra, the context of today's meeting--we've had some straying from topic--is around the delivery of the IPCC report. If you can make your questions directed to department officials in that vein, that would be helpful.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Do you believe that adaptation is a major issue facing the world, including, obviously, Canada?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

That's the same question.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Mr. Alghabra, if you want to refer to how the IPCC talks about adaptation or something specific to the context of this report, you may. You're generalizing the question beyond the context. If you could be more specific to the report we have in front of us, we can allow the representatives from government to answer.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, the report says that adaptation is a serious matter and we have witnesses who tell us that the federal government is cutting research on this matter. I don't mean to put the officials in a difficult position on a matter of policy.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Nathan Cullen]

Right.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I want to get their professional opinion on what we can do as a government. Do we have all the facts or are there any missing links?