Environment Committee on May 14th, 2008

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you.

I will move amendment G-7.

As this bill only pertains to the federal crown, the title and scope should be drafted accordingly.

Establishing a committee of cabinet in legislation is extremely unusual. There is currently only one cabinet committee that has a legislative basis, and that is the Treasury Board. Given that decisions around the structure of government and cabinet are critical to the Prime Minister's capacity to fulfill his or her mandate as the head of the government and to realize his or her government's agenda, it would be more suitable here to require that “a committee of the Queen's Privy Council”--my understanding is that's the legal name for the cabinet, and I'll seek clarification on that, but that's why we're seeing the word “Cabinet” gone and why “the Queen's Privy Council” is inserted--would be required to include the oversight, and I think “oversight” is a key word, of the development and implementation of a federal strategy as one of its duties, and that Environment Canada establish an office to monitor and report on the strategy's implementation.

Excuse me just one second.

I'm sorry; that's a second amendment.

In G-7, our first amendment on clause 6--let me just take a look at the bill--the word “Cabinet” is scratched, and we end up having “a committee of the Queen's Privy Council”. That's just the correct name of the cabinet.

The original clause 6 said, “The Governor in Council shall appoint a Cabinet Committee on Sustainable Development, chaired by the Minister”. That's changed to “a committee of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, consisting of a chairperson and other members of the Queen's Privy Council”--which is the proper name for the cabinet--“shall have oversight of the development of the”, and it's no longer “National”; it would be “Federal Sustainable Development Strategy.”

We have to permit the Prime Minister to have the prerogative of the machinery of government.

It made me think of another quote that we heard from Mr. Mitchell, and here it is. There are actually a number of interesting quotes. He said:

I actually don't think it's useful or productive for Parliament to say, here's how we want you to run your kitchen, and we're going to hold you to account for having run the kitchen in this precise way or that. You want to look at what's coming out of the kitchen. What are you getting by way of policy and program commitments, spending, and fundamental changes?

He also said:

I would actually not have a separate committee for sustainable development, because those issues you are talking about in the bill and that we've been talking about today are so fundamental and so integrated that I'd want to see them considered in something like a priorities and planning committee or an executive committee of cabinet, something like that. The most senior, central, general decision-making body of cabinet is where I would put those issues and those decisions.

What we're proposing in this amendment is changing the word “Cabinet” to “Queen's Privy Council” and, again, a federal SDS, and that the Queen's Privy Council shall have oversight of the development and implementation of that SDS.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I accept the definition. Just to recap what the parliamentary secretary said, the technical use of these words, “the Queen's Privy Council for Canada”, “the chairperson”, and “the members of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada” is what we mean by the current cabinet members. This would not apply to the entire realm of past privy councillors, including ourselves.

I think you put on the record that you mean the cabinet, the current cabinet made up of current cabinet ministers. I'm just wondering if there is any language that makes a distinction between the two. There really are, in effect, two Queen's Privy Councils, the current cabinet, and then also, as the Government of Canada website points out, the Queen's Privy Council for Canada thus includes not only members of the present ministry, but also former ministers and other distinguished persons.

I just don't know if there is any language that makes that distinction clear, but since you have put it on the record that you're referring to the government of the day, the ministry of the day, we're happy with that definition.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I am confirming that that's the intent.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Just one second. We're consulting on the exact words.

Everyone understands this amendment is replacing clause 6, as written. We have “Committee”, and then the wording that is there. Of course, I do remind you that clause 6.1 is coming up, which would add to clause 6.

But we're talking now about clause 6. Any other comments or questions?

Yes, Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I want to understand this in the same spirit that Mr. Godfrey asked the question.

Removing as we have here, this just requires any existing...and not striking a new one necessarily. I'm saying that in history that has been a pretty rare thing, a couple of times only, so at present, an existing cabinet committee can take on that responsibility of sustainable development. Is that right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes. We're not legislating any new committee.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

That's the point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Ms. Savoie.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

As you mentioned, L-19 won't be put because of this change. What about the substance of parts of that amendment that would be to produce a report every three years on the implementation of the strategy?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

It's coming, yes.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

That's coming.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Everyone is with me?

We're looking at the amendment to clause 6.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

This is G-7?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, this is G-7.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Are we renumbering something here?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

No.

We're now dealing with clause 6, and this is government amendment 7, as written here.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 6 as amended agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We now have a new clause, which is clause 6.1 at this point, and that subclause has an amendment, G-8 on page 16.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you. I'll move G-8.

What it would do is change the wording at the beginning of the new clause 6.1. This would be 6.1(1), and instead of the “Governor in Council”, it would say “the Minister shall establish a Sustainable Development Office”. We would scratch the word “Secretariat”. Can you see that?

It would read:

The Minister shall establish a Sustainable Development Office within the Department of the Environment

--scratching out Privy Council Office to support the activities of....

Am I losing you?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

This is a brand-new clause that we're talking about now. So we're not scratching anything. We're dealing with what will be renumbered, of course, but at this point we're calling it 6.1, a brand-new clause.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

That is correct. It will make some changes, and I'm trying to introduce to you how it will change.... I'm presenting here the results of those changes from the previous wording.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Okay.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So “Governor in Council” is scratched and it becomes “Minister”. “Secretariat Office” is gone. It's “within the Department of the Environment” instead of the “Privy Council Office”. We're scratching “support the activities of the Cabinet committee on sustainable development”, because it's no longer relevant.

So it would read:

The Minister shall establish a Sustainable Development Office within the Department of the Environment to develop and maintain systems and procedures to monitor progress on implementation of the Federal Sustainable Development Strategy.

The Office shall, at least once every five years after the day on which this Act comes into force, provide the Minister a report on the progress of the federal government in implementing the Federal Sustainable Development Strategy. The Minister shall cause the report to be laid before the House of Commons on any of the first 15 days on which that House is sitting after the Minister receives it.

Environment Canada established an office to monitor the report...and strategies implementation. The Privy Council Office would automatically act as the secretariat to the cabinet committee, so it's unnecessary to specify this in the statute.

Changing the secretariat to an office, which is only meant to better reflect the actual duties of the organization, is a good idea, I believe. A secretariat connotes an organization that is in support of another entity. This would not be reflective of the role given the amendments. The term “Office” would better reflect the oversight and monitoring function proposed for the organization than would “secretariat”.

These changes maintain the overall spirit of the clause while preserving the Prime Minister's ability, and this is critical. The Prime Minister has to maintain the ability to structure his cabinet in a manner that best suits the needs of his or her government. It also makes sense to include the monitoring and reporting role of the secretariat in this clause rather than in a new clause 13, as proposed by Mr. Godfrey--and I'm not sure if that's off the table. He can elaborate on that. So that's why we have the monitoring in there.

Are there any questions?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Ms. Savoie, and then Mr. Godfrey.