Evidence of meeting #4 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was kyoto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Good afternoon, thank you for being here. Sincerely, I would need, not five minutes, but two days to be able to ask all my questions. So, as far as possible, I'll ask you to answer me with a yes or no, or to be as brief as possible.
Mr. Bramley, the opposition has told us on a number of occasions that France, England and Germany were examples to follow. Are the countries I've just named really examples to follow?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Climate Change, Pembina Institute
Let's start with the targets. The document that I've distributed, but that you perhaps haven't received, contains a table. Our document on Bali is on our Web site. In it we compare the targets of various countries. Germany's target, for example, is to reduce its emissions by 40% between 1990 and 2020. France is aiming for a 75% to 80% reduction.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Director, Climate Change, Pembina Institute
Some of those countries, yes, have objectives that are compatible with the scientific recommendations. From a policy standpoint, you have to look at them more closely.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Director, Climate Change, Pembina Institute
I'm talking about the policies put in place. In Europe, in general, they acted much sooner and more vigorously. That was the case, for example, with regard to the promotion of renewable energies and energy efficiency, but much remains to be done, of course.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
France now has 58 nuclear reactors and 20 atomic power stations. If I understand correctly, you also think that's an example for Canada to follow for the future development of its greenhouse gas reductions?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Climate Change, Pembina Institute
At the Pembina Institute, we aren't—
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Director, Climate Change, Pembina Institute
If France's emissions are already quite low because it uses nuclear energy on a massive scale, it is all the more difficult for it to adopt an additional 75% reduction target for its emissions. A country like Canada, whose missions are very high, has, from a certain standpoint, more opportunities to make reductions.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
I have another question. The mining sector is a real presence in my riding. It was explained to me that four tonnes of Co2 are emitted in the production of one tonne of aluminum in Canada and that seven tonnes of Co2 are emitted to produce that same tonne of aluminum in China.
What are we to do? Should we go and produce our aluminum in China? Is that advantageous for Canada, or should it continue to do that here? Should carbon credits be given to the one that uses aluminum so that we can find the best possible place to produce that aluminum? That's an example.
Ms. Donnelly, you seem interested in the question.
4:50 p.m.
President, Greenhouse Emissions Management Consortium
I want to turn that example into where we should be taking the Kyoto Protocol. If we were following the Montreal Protocol model and trying to reintroduce that to the Kyoto process, we would be sitting down with the United States, Europe, and Japan right now and asking them to bind to a common market aluminum product standard. We would regulate that anybody who sells aluminum, imports aluminum, or makes aluminum in our common market must account for the emissions associated with aluminum's production, regardless of where it's made in the world. And to legally sell aluminum in Canada, the emission intensity of what you would sell here in Canada, in the United States, and in Europe would have to be below .4 tonnes of greenhouse gases per tonne of aluminum. At that point in time, we would finally have, for the first time, levelled the playing field. We could now attract investment to aluminum plant upgrades in Canada instead of losing it to the countries that have cheaper, higher-emitting electricity. That's a fair global level playing field.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Ms. Donnelly, during your last visit, you talked about credits for 91 megatonnes of HCFC-22. How is HCFC-22 bad for the environment?
4:50 p.m.
President, Greenhouse Emissions Management Consortium
The credits are for reducing HFC-23 emissions that arise in the process of making a product called HCFC-22. HCFC-22 is an ozone-depleting substance that is scheduled to be out of production under the Montreal Protocol in the developed world by the end of 2010 and with a later phase-out. It's a highly potent greenhouse gas.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Under the Kyoto Protocol, we're going to provide 91 million tonnes in credits for HCFC-22.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to take the opportunity to hand the floor over to the young people, since they appear to form the majority of the audience. I'm going to put my question to Ms. Hayes.
In your presentation, you mentioned that, in future, you were going to have to adjust to certain conditions. Mr. Drexhage said that some species would disappear, that there would be a loss of plant and animal diversity, that new insects would appear, that there would be invasions, that the food chain would be altered, and so on.
I would like to know whether, in your opinion, the present government will achieve the target of 20% in 2020 that it has set for itself. Otherwise, do you have any proposals to make to your government so that target is reached? Lastly, what sacrifices is the young generation prepared to make in its standard of living in order to achieve that target?
4:55 p.m.
National Director, Canadian Youth Climate Coalition
First, regarding the government's target of 20% in 2020, it is starting from the wrong baseline of 2006. So even that might not be enough to avert these things I'm talking about, and in fact, it is probably not going to be. Therefore, I'm not convinced that the government is putting forward all efforts to meet even these targets that aren't the ones we need.
I don't actually have any proposals on me right now, but as to what youth are ready to give up in terms of standard of living, I think the key point is that we will have to give up much less if we act now. What we're saying is, help us take the initiative right now so that we aren't condemned to a much lower standard of living that we will have if, when I'm your age, I start reducing emissions to the point that is already being called for by IPCC and others.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Ms. Hayes, I'm sure that people close to you have suggested solutions for reducing greenhouse gas emissions or proposals to make to the government so that it can achieve its targets.
What do young people talk about amongst themselves? What tools can we use to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?
4:55 p.m.
National Director, Canadian Youth Climate Coalition
In terms of objectives, we do call for the phase-out of fossil fuel subsidies. We do call for better regulations, at least California standards, for automobile emissions. The phase-out of coal we can do, at least in Ontario, and I think in B.C. as well. There have been studies produced that contain no coal, no nuclear, and still supply increased....
The government used to have a very good home energy efficiency plan, EnerGuide, for increased home efficiency standards and smarter design.
We create things that just waste so much energy. So in terms of basic conservation, before you even get to the more serious things that need to happen regarding manufacturing and transition to a green job economy, which we absolutely can do, which we have the resources to do here in Canada, those are the first kinds of things.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Have you heard about a project that Quebec would like to carry out designed to reduce oil dependence by 20%?
4:55 p.m.
National Director, Canadian Youth Climate Coalition
I don't know the specifics.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Mr. Bramley, you also listen to young people. What is your reaction to the questions I asked Ms. Hayes? Do you know whether young people recommend targeting cuts in the production of greenhouse gases in other areas as well?
