Environment Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

And it also gives them a chance to finish the conference before they report to us, if we confirm it will happen in the new year.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Chair, as a result of the decision of the majority of the committee, there is going to be a steering committee and the steering committee will recommend the list of witnesses to this committee. When will that meeting happen? Now we can't have any meetings until you have the list of witnesses approved by the main committee, so we've stalled everything.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Again, I'm open to members, but my thinking is that we get the list on Friday. By about Tuesday or Wednesday of the week after, we have the steering committee meeting to look at that list submitted by all the parties. We then agree these would be the people we would invite for topics two, three, four, five, and six. We agree to that. We then send that out to everyone by e-mail, with a deadline. I assume it would have to be the first week of January or something like that, and people would have to get back to us.

We would then invite people. We've got to give them at least a couple of weeks, so we need to do that by January 10--just picking a date. And our first meeting would be the debriefing, and then we'd go from there with the dates. It gets easier as we get further out.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Chair, as I've expressed in the past, I don't particularly trust the Liberals' tactics.

This list is going to have to be approved. The recommendations of the steering committee will first have to be approved by this committee before there are any meetings. And it will not be by phone calls or e-mails. You've got to have a list approved by this committee.

That's why I was really concerned that the tactic of the Liberals was to slow down this whole process. We can't have any meetings.

I hope that's considered so we have something in place, not by consensus through e-mails and phone calls, but an actual list approved by this committee, which includes healthy debate. It may happen very quickly if the recommendations from the steering committee are fair and balanced, but if they're not, then everything grinds to a halt. And you can't have healthy debate if it's all coming back to the committee, if we're not trusting you and the clerk. It's all going to be decided and approved here. We're not talking of meetings until February.

Those are the results of what's been accomplished today.

Thank you, gentlemen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I'm listening carefully to the points being raised by the honourable member, but nothing precludes this full committee, which is the ultimate master of the destiny of the environment committee, which has already decided on what the first meeting is going to be, when it's going to be, and who is going to be there.

On the second meeting, we've already determined we're going to have it, what it's going to be. I think we still have to suss out the one and two, so the only way that argument can hold is if we don't, in some way, have a process that lets us identify who is going to be at meeting two.

As long as we have that, then there is ample time for meeting one to happen. The steering committee could come back and we'd still hold meeting two, and by then we'll have nailed down the details of three, four, and five.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

The only problem I see with that, Mr. Christopherson, is that it means the clerk can't confirm people for meetings three, four, five, and six until we're back here to approve the list. That's the problem and that'll be fairly tight.

Yes, Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I don't understand the difference. If you and the clerk, in your wisdom, had established a list, it would have to go out to the full committee. It would still have to have approval by some electronic or virtual means so that we could proceed with the meetings. All we're doing is substituting; instead of you and the clerk doing it by yourselves, we're saying you and three of your best friends and the clerk are doing it.

It's the same process after that. It still has to go to the main committee in some electronic format to make sure there's no problem. There's less likelihood of a problem, because four people representing all four parties will have signed off on it--or not--but at least I think you've got a better chance of this being less problematic, and it's the same process once a proposed list has been established. It still has to go to the committee one way or another, whether you do it or whether the steering committee does it.

I don't get it, but maybe I'm missing something.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

As you know, the steering committee can only recommend. Again, I don't think you're implying that we would have some hidden plot to determine witnesses who would be unfair to the bill. As I say, I depend heavily on the clerk to determine who's available. That's how we would have proceeded.

Mr. Warawa, have you a comment back to Mr. Godfrey?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

No, I think I made my point. I'm concerned with this slowing down. I thought we had a very simple process; now it's becoming much more complex. I would like to see this move ahead quickly and effectively. The sooner we can have this come back to the committee with the steering committee making their recommendations, the sooner we can have that list approved by this main committee and the sooner we can move forward with Bill C-377. This has to come back here first.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm going to call the vote on the amended motion.

To reply to Mr. Christopherson in the sense of the second meeting, obviously that is really quite a bit bigger, I think, than this bill. If we could agree on that second meeting, obviously it would be beneficial to all of us. That's not really part of this motion, but it's something I'd like everybody to think about.

I'm going to call the vote on the motion as amended.

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Can I just come back to Mr. Christopherson's last topic regarding that second meeting, which is sixth on this list? Can we come to any agreement on that meeting so that it could at least be arranged?

Go ahead, Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Well, in the spirit of what's been discussed before, I would propose that the four names that we approach for that meeting be the four eminent persons called on by the government: Pierre Marc Johnson, Mary Simon, Elizabeth Dowdeswell, and Ian Morton.

One of the things that would be refreshing for us, Mr. Chair, is that these are not the usual suspects. These are not officials; they're different, and we haven't heard from these people before. If they're good enough to be part of the government--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

In fairness, we need to give them time, and this gives them lots of time.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

If they're good enough for the Government of Canada, Mr. Warawa, they're good enough for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Can we get agreement, then, on the second meeting? Then we're only working on four meetings, which should hopefully make things go smoother.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Okay. We'll instruct the clerk, then, to set up that meeting on Bali for January 29. We'll invite those four people. If we only get three, we'll get three, but we'll invite the four.

Is there any other business?

We will proceed, then, and see how smoothly it can go.

The other motions have been tabled, but they haven't been moved, so they stay there. They're not being moved. So have a good weekend.

The meeting is adjourned.