Environment Committee on Dec. 11th, 2007

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That could well be.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Is that why there is a similar part in the bill? You address clause 13, which deals with requiring the environment commissioner to be involved. You suggest that, as in Bill C-288, you'll be looking at having it amended as it was in Bill C-288.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

We followed the deliberations here, and if this committee feels there's a better way of handling that particular dimension, we're very open to it.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

How did the targets get set? You said you drafted this bill with the assistance of Pembina. The targets in this document are the same as what you have.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Yes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Neither one has been costed. So again you've used Mr. Bramley as a consultant to help draft your Bill C-377; I think that's what you said.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

He was one of the people we consulted. I was quite precise in the way I expressed that, so I'd appreciate it if you'd repeat it in the same fashion.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

He was involved with Bill C-377 and Bill C-288, with no costing. Are you using the targets that were from this document?

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Yes. And the reason is that we start with the international scientific consensus that a two-degree Celsius increase in average global temperature would create very dangerous conditions. And then the question is, how do you work backwards from that ultimate temperature change, which is modelled in all of the computer models, regarding the accumulation of energy within the earth's climate system?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Okay. I'm short of time.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Your time is up.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm all done. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleague for sharing his time with me.

Mr. Layton, thank you very much for appearing. We appreciate your enthusiasm, and I appreciate your brief answers, by the way, in terms of my colleague. It allows us to get a little bit more in, in terms of questioning, and I hope we can continue that.

This is essentially a post-Kyoto bill, I think it's fair to say, so let's talk a little bit about post-Kyoto if we can.

Arresting the rise in global greenhouse gas emissions--many have declared it's urgent and we agree with that. Do you agree it's urgent to arrest the rise in global GHGs? By what year are you hoping that's achieved?

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

First of all, I agree with you that it's urgent. I think it has to happen much more rapidly than--if I may say, with due respect--the plan the government lays out.

We would still have a 2% increase in emissions under the plan, so I'm worried about that.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I'm looking for a year when you think we should be arresting global GHG emissions.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

You mean when we should be stopping the growth and turn the corner towards an actual reduction in Canada?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Global greenhouse gases. I'm talking about post-Kyoto.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Globally? It certainly needs to happen within roughly the decade following Kyoto, by most of the scientific analysis.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I think they've testified before the committee that it's 10 to 15 years.

We've also heard testimony by some before this committee that developing nations like China, South Korea, and India shouldn't take on a hard target for up to 20 years, as has been testified here. Do you agree with that position?

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm more focused, and this bill is focused, on what we should do in Canada. I think this focus on what other countries are required to do, without us undertaking the kind of action we're insisting others take, is wrong. That's why we have this bill here.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Does this mean you agree with that position or don't agree with that position? That was the question.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Regarding the nature of targets for these other countries?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Should China and South Korea be given a pass for 20 years on emissions?

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

First of all, they're not asking for a pass. We don't support them being given a pass. We have always supported the language of the UNFCCC and the Kyoto Protocol, which called for differentiated approaches. But I don't believe there are any requests for people to take a pass.