Environment Committee on Jan. 28th, 2008

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

I would say the negotiating partners that were dealing with Canada also have a legitimate view about whether or not Canada was obstructing the negotiating process.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I'd like to get to the issue of the Fossil of the Day Awards.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You get it today.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

Do you want to keep interrupting? I didn't interrupt you, Mr. Regan.

Since you were handing these out in Bali, do you know how many Fossil of the Day Awards your Liberal Party was awarded between 1999 and 2005?

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

I'm not here as a member of the Liberal Party, so it's not my party as I sit here—and I don't know.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

There were 89 of them, Mr. Chairman, just for the record. That was second place only to George W. Bush—and just ahead of Saudi Arabia.

So I would suggest it's probably a little rich for you to come here and criticize the government on climate change when you should probably be pointing the finger at your own party—or your previous party—the Liberal Party.

I understand that one of the members registered as part of the youth delegation and Climate Action Network Canada, Sasha Pippenger—I think I have that correct—encouraged people to place prank calls to a member of the Canadian delegation in Bali.

I'd be happy to table with the chair and the clerk a copy of a blog that encouraged this, something—I don't know about you—I think we regard very differently in this country.

Would you admit that encouraging prank calls to Canadian delegates is a bit juvenile?

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

I would, if that's what we did, but could you read me the part of the blog where she mentions crank calls, please?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes. Do we have the copy? Was it Dimitri Soudas? Let me get back to that in a second while we find the quote.

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

I'm happy to answer that question, even without you getting the quote.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Let me get the quote for you here in a moment.

I noticed that on the UNFCCC's official website, Climate Action Network Canada, part of their delegation included--I'm just going to read a few names to you here--Mr. Brian Guest, president of Boxfish Consulting Limited, who worked in Paul Martin's Prime Minister's Office and helped write Stéphane Dion's “Project Green”. We also have Mr. Jacques Ouimette, senior adviser to the leader of the opposition. Interestingly enough, there is Ms. Dahlia Stein, senior policy adviser to the leader of the opposition, and Mr. André Lamarre, senior adviser to the leader of the opposition. It is a very interesting list of non-partisans who were part of this delegation.

Mr. McGuinty, I think you said....

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Are you going to wrap up?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes, I will.

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

Is this a question?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes, there is a question here, Mr. Lavoie. You've made statements to this committee that this is entirely non-partisan, yet we have a laundry list of Liberals, including those with direct links to the leader of the official opposition's office, who were part of what's supposed to be a non-partisan group. Do you want to withdraw your statement that in fact these groups were non-partisan, or is it clear, either through your personal involvement--

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

No. I re-emphasize it emphatically. Sorry to interrupt.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I think the proof is clear, then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Watson, you're well over your time.

You may answer very briefly, Mr. Lavoie.

[Olivier Jarvis Lavoie]

If I could answer that, that would be fair.

First, the number of individuals we mentioned is--if I were even to use this reasoning--such a small proportion of the actual membership, that there's no way, Mr. Chairman, that anyone could claim that this is what makes a group partisan. The CYD has a card-carrying Albertan member of the Conservative Party. We've had people who are organizers for the NDP. And as I said, we have people who are completely apolitical. So this group is non-partisan. I'm keenly aware of the non-partisanship of the group because politics was not often discussed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Good. Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. McGuinty.

These are five-minute rounds. We'll go as quickly as possible, and I'll keep you tight to your time.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin by apologizing to the witnesses for that unfortunate line of questioning.

Instead of racing to the bottom, I'd like to go back to a couple of important points Mr. Drexhage made about the science. You gave testimony today, Mr. Drexhage, that was really quite alarming, particularly the report you were citing on the analysis that's been put out. I'm assuming that in Bali with the IPCC report, the OECD countries have been requested, given the latest science, to have targets of 25% to 40% below 1990 levels by 2020. Secondly, you talked about the IPCC saying clearly to the OECD countries, and to the world at large, that 40% to 70% of our species may face potential extinction. Both of those would have been pre-eminently visible during the Bali conference. Is that correct?

[John Drexhage]

Yes, they would have. To clarify, it's not the business of the IPCC to define what represents dangerous anthropogenic interference or dangerous human interference with the global climate system. That ultimately is a political decision.

There's been a growing constituency begun by the small island states in the EU who say that two degrees is dangerous, and there are a number of other countries that say, well, hold on here--you're talking about stopping everything in its tracks, so let's get a little realistic about this, etc. That still is under negotiation.

If you do want a two-degree world, if that's what your goal is--and that's not been decided yet by the global community--then it would likely require two things. Number one, 25% to 40% reductions by 2020 of 1990 levels on the part of OECD countries, and in 2020 already you're going to be seeing a significant departure from business-as-usual for major developing countries. If it's just going to be OECD doing it alone without developing countries, we won't get anything close to two degrees. Let's be clear about that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I hear you loud and clear.

In your time there, then.... You were in Bali for several weeks, if I recall?

[John Drexhage]

I was there for a couple of weeks, yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So you would have interfaced regularly with the official Canadian delegation, with Mr. Shugart and Mr. McGovern and others?