Environment Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2009

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am new to this committee--and as my friend across said, new to any committee--so I couch my remarks somewhat cautiously. I don't know what matters this committee might deal with that would involve such great emergency or urgency that they must be decided within 24 hours. There may be some, but I expect that most of the matters we deal with would involve matters of such importance that we would want to give them good consideration.

I suppose I am also learning that this committee may not be what I thought it was. I thought I came here as a committee member with an independent responsibility to investigate and make up my own mind about things. I must confess, having been a lawyer for 30 years, there are very few issues of any importance that I could investigate and make up my mind about within 24 hours. While the government may have resources, I do want to bring some of my own independent reasoning to things.

If those things we deal with here are important, then I think they're important enough to justify 48 hours' notice at least.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Are there any further questions?

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Perhaps we could reach a compromise position here. Mr. Ouellet provided basically a worst-case scenario, with it being very long. The other worst-case scenario is that it would be too short.

I'd suggest that if we are meeting on Tuesday, as we are today, that if a 24-hour notice period, one sleep, is what we were to used and it wasn't clear when the clock started ticking.... It could be received by the clerk in his slot, so the clerk didn't actually receive it. I think that's an important point that has to be clarified. If the motion was slid under the clerk's door at six or seven o'clock on a Monday night and we meet on Tuesday, it would then meet the one-sleep requirement, that 24 hours.

I can live with 24 hours, if it's 24 hours. That would give us, as committee members, an opportunity to receive and consider it. If we are meeting on Tuesday morning at nine, it would have to be received by the clerk by nine the previous day, which would be Monday morning at nine. If 24 hours is 24 hours, and it starts from when the clerk receives it, then we could live with 24 hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Essentially that's what the motion adopted by committee in the past says. It is a full 24 hours' notice. It's not one sleep; it's a full 24-hour time clock. Okay?

So we're back to the original motion.

Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you.

For my own understanding as well, I wonder if it might be helpful to define what we mean by “received by the clerk.”

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Radford.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Perhaps the clerk should explain what this motion means. That would resolve many issues.

[The Clerk]

It means it's sent to me, for example, by e-mail, and I actually have it. I can see it. Sometimes members--well, all of us--send documents by e-mail, but we inadvertently send it to the wrong address. You could have a member who says it was sent to me last night, but if I didn't receive it then I don't have it. It's when I actually have it and I can see the document in front of me, whether it's by e-mail or a piece of paper or mail. Mail is important too. It takes about 24 hours in this Parliament to physically send a document. If your staff send it to me by mail and it's four o'clock, I won't get it until the next day--perhaps at ten or maybe a bit later. Now, in your mind you've sent it to me and given your 24 hours' notice, but I have not seen it. I have not read it. I have not had a chance to see if it's in order. Sometimes there are things we need to adjust or correct.

So it's when I receive it--when I actually look at it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

And you have a way of verifying it.

[The Clerk]

Yes, I can verify it. I can phone your caucus and ask, “Do you really want to do this? There seems to be a contradiction”, or whatever.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

There is a confirmation of receipt by yourself.

[The Clerk]

Yes, a confirmation or receipt.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

With respect to clarification of language, the motion is that the motion be “filed with the clerk”. We may forget what that means down the road or we may have a change of personnel around this table. Should that be changed to “received by the clerk”?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Then the question becomes why we have the 6 p.m. time limit in here.

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I suggest to my committee colleagues that the motion should be worded something to the effect that “the clerk acknowledges receipt of a motion”. Once that acknowledgement is made, whether it's sitting in an in-box....

For example, a committee member, through their staff, could submit a motion while we're actually sitting in committee right now. If hypothetically we were in the 48-hours scenario, does that qualify for the Thursday meeting, given that we're already past nine o'clock on Tuesday? The clerk wouldn't have a chance to read the e-mail until he returned to his office.

I think we really should be looking at when the clerk actually acknowledges receipt or confirmation of the notice of the motion. I think at that point in time, once that acknowledgement is made, the 24-hour clock starts ticking.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I understand the principle raised by Mr. Calkins, but I think that it's not a standard rule. To ensure that the clerk's office can operate properly, standards must be established. I don't know whether the clerk can tell us which rule applies, that of acknowledging receipt or that regarding the tabling of the motion. We need to try to establish standard rules because the clerk also has help. Standard operating procedures need to be established to help facilitate the work of the clerk. We can debate the issue of having 24 or 48 hours' notice, but I am not sure whether discussing the tabling or the acknowledgment of receipt will facilitate the work of the clerk or that of the committee.

In the past, have we adopted a rule regarding acknowledgment of receipt by the clerk?

[The Clerk]

Typically, when I receive an amendment, I call the member or the MP's office or I confirm by e-mail. It's simply a courtesy.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

With regard to the routine motions adopted by the committees...

[The Clerk]

The motions that were passed are the ones you have before you. The word used in English is “filed”, and in French, it is “déposée”. Earlier, I said that if a member sends a paper document from his or her office by messenger, there is no way for me to get that document before the next day. The member may say that it was sent the day before at 4 p.m. When I actually have the document in hand, it is clear.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

When you call, that is considered an acknowledgment of receipt.

[The Clerk]

Yes, it is an acknowledgment of receipt.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I have Mr. Scarpaleggia, and then Mr. McGuinty.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Chair, could we not require that all notices of motion be sent by e-mail? Everyone has access to the Internet in this day and age. If the motion arrives after 5:30 p.m. or 6 p.m. on Friday, it would be deemed to have been received at 8 a.m. on Monday morning. That gives us more than 24 hours, because we meet on Tuesdays at 9 a.m.