Environment Committee on Feb. 5th, 2009

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I find it a little ironic to talk about simplifying things at a time when Francophones need access to documents. Documents presented by witnesses are all relevant and people must have access to them in the language of their choice. That seems fundamental to me, and questions of procedure do not enter into it.

The committee must observe the Official Languages Act. I do not see why we are here debating what is relevant and what is not. This is not complicated: documents must be provided in both official languages, and witnesses must be told that in advance.

It has never caused me any problem on the committee. I have sometimes agreed to documents being distributed in English only. I do not want a long debate about this. The clerk must advise witnesses that documents must be provided in both official languages.

I want to make sure that the rule and the act are followed. It is my right to get documents in French so that I can understand the debate.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We're trying to facilitate that.

Mr. Woodworth.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I ask this because I'm new here, but would it be in order for us to give directions to the clerk to put his mind to Mr. McGuinty's comments? Perhaps the clerk could prepare appropriate instruction or guidance for witnesses and simply distribute it to us so that new members such as me know what the expectations of witnesses are when they arrive. Could we ask for that?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I take it upon myself as chair of this committee to work with the clerk to ensure we respect the Official Languages Act and move forward with appropriate documentation to be presented to witnesses in advance of their appearance.

Mr. Wilfert. Welcome to the environment committee.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

As a former parliamentary secretary, it's nice to be back.

I think it would be helpful if all clerks were instructed to provide a written outline as to expectations. People come with documents. They start reading them and sometimes don't finish. So it's important they know that the documents have been distributed in advance to members, so they can go through and select the key elements and make it germane to whatever topic is being presented. They either run overtime, or don't really understand what their role is. It's incumbent upon members to have read the documentation as well.

But if there were standard written guidelines, which we're certainly looking to have, it would be helpful for both the presenters and the members.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Radford.

[The Clerk]

Just very briefly, Mr. Chair, perhaps I can answer some of those questions.

There is a standard guideline, prepared by the House, that is given to witnesses. I have a copy I could send to you. In terms of this committee, what we've normally done, Tim and I.... Certainly I send letters to the witnesses and phone them. We identify the themes of what we're doing, so the broad questions. If available, I always send the previous blues, the evidence. I normally establish a working dialogue with them to ensure that the presentation is focused on those areas.

In some instances witnesses will do what witnesses do: they see this as an opportunity and they have their own agenda. That happens. But that's all we can do.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

And there will be circumstances where witnesses will not provide documentation. They will just appear here and speak. We know from experience in other committees, this one included, that witnesses will show up just to do a verbal presentation.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the motion before us covers it adequately. However, the points brought by Mr. McGuinty and Mr. Wilfert are good. Anyone who has ever been on this committee has found it very frustrating to hear witnesses without having their briefing materials ahead of time in order for us to be prepared.

I think the point that Mr. McGuinty is making.... Well, I think he's suggesting that maybe we should consider taking it to a higher level. If they're going to be witnesses, they have to provide the materials to the clerk in a timely fashion so that we can be prepared. In that way we'd be much more productive as a committee.

So I think it's a good point: do we take it to that higher level? What is the traditional thing that happens here? Well over 50% of the time we do not get materials. Should we take it to the higher level? Maybe. It is a very good point. The message would get out to the witnesses very clearly: if you're going to be at the environment committee, it's a serious committee, and you need to provide those briefing materials.

I would like to take it to that next level.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Monsieur Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I certainly understand the comments that Mr. McGuinty, Mr. Wilfert and Mr. Warawa are making, but that is not what the motion before us is saying. It is saying that when the clerk receives documents, they have to be distributed in both official languages. Of course, you are right, the documents must be distributed before the committee meets, so that we can go over them. What we have to avoid is documents that have not been translated being distributed to committee members.

It would be totally unacceptable if a witness from Quebec were to send the clerk a report in French and it was distributed to committee members in French only. I feel sure that there would be a reaction to that around the table. We would say that it is unacceptable, that it contravenes the Official Languages Act, that the document must be translated into English, and we would be right.

Under the Official Languages Act, I am also entitled to receive a version of documents sent to the clerk in my native language. That is how things are.

That is what this motion is about. It is not about the importance of distributing documents to committee members before meetings so that we can go over them.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Duncan, and then Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm going to make a brief comment--reluctantly, simply because I'd hoped that we could get through these rules much more quickly--and say that we seem to be getting into discussing things that aren't even in this rule. I would tend to say let's call the question and move on. Then we can have consensus that there are additional things that we will agree to.

One thing I would like to have clear is that we're talking about documents that are filed in advance, but if a witness raises a document, some kind of report they authored and so forth, that sounds of interest to us, I would hope that wouldn't preclude the witness, if we requested it, from providing it. Then we would have it translated and everybody could review it when we considered--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The general practice here, at least from my experience, is that if a witness does appear with material in one of the official languages, it can be filed with the clerk and then translated and distributed at a later time. That's unless the committee agrees to have it distributed at the committee, but there has to be unanimous consent to do that.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I'm in agreement that we should call the question.

Perhaps we could ask the clerk to come back to us with the written procedure he follows--it has nothing to do with official languages, that's another question--in terms of informing witnesses about what they need to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Just for your information, once we get through all these routine motions, we'll have them printed and circulated to all committee members, and with that we'll include what the process is for informing witnesses about their testimony.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Perfect. I would call the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Any other comments? Seeing none, all those in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Continuing on, staff at in camera meetings: that unless otherwise ordered, each committee member be allowed to be accompanied by one staff person and, in addition, each party be permitted to have one staff member from the office of either their House leader, their whip, or their research bureau attend in camera meetings.

That was passed at the 39th parliament, second session.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I move it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Moved by Ms. Duncan.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Everybody else is abstaining.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Any comments, discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Working meals: that the clerk of the committee be authorized to make the necessary arrangements to provide working meals for the committee and its subcommittees.