Environment Committee on May 13th, 2009

[Glen Semenchuk]

Just recently.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So three ENGOs left; and how many aboriginal representatives were there again?

[Glen Semenchuk]

There were three first nations.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So there was a total of six.

[Glen Semenchuk]

Correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm just looking at the list. I printed it off; that's why I ran out of the room.

We have the Chard Métis Local 214; the Conklin Métis Local 193; Fort Chipewyan Métis Local 125; Fort McKay Métis Local 63; Fort McKay First Nation; and Fort McMurray Métis Local 2020.

Does that sound accurate?

[Glen Semenchuk]

Yes, it does.

We also have two new applications from aboriginal groups to join CEMA, which will be considered at our June general meeting.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So one of the groups that left...and we heard from a number of ENGOs in the previous group. Pembina is well known to be involved in taking a good look at the oil sands. We had a representative of Pembina here, and I asked him about withdrawing from RAMP. As you continue your studies, do they participate and provide input as a non-member?

[Glen Semenchuk]

They don't at this time.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Have you been in contact with them to ask why they're not providing input?

[Glen Semenchuk]

We keep an open dialogue. I haven't specifically gone after them about why they're not members. When they left, they were fairly specific about some of the changes they would like to see in CEMA. We took it on as a challenge, and over the next few months we're going to look at those recommendations. Hopefully the changes we make to CEMA will attract them back, because they did leave the door open.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Okay, but they are aware that their input is welcome.

[Glen Semenchuk]

Absolutely.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm reading your vision statement, and it says that the environment of the region, including the land, forest, air, water--which we're studying today--wildlife and biodiversity will be protected, sustained, and restored over the long term, and the collective activity of industry in the region will not cause any lasting harm to the environment or adverse effects to the health of humans. We've heard a lot about that over the last few days.

It continues to say that should these impacts be evident--referring to negative impacts--the association and its members will recommend, promote, and implement mitigation action to reverse their effects. Then it goes on to say that the purpose is to provide a forum for stakeholders to discuss and make consensus-based decisions.

Ms. Duncan raised the importance of consensus. So your point is that it's difficult to get consensus when you have a very large group.

When you're dealing with a project, do you get consensus from a smaller group on a project--a subcommittee--and send that recommendation from the smaller group to the larger group?

[Glen Semenchuk]

That's the way we operate. It can go down to a subgroup, up through a working group, and up through our management committee to the members.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

At the subgroups, you have good representation and opportunities for the ENGOs, aboriginals, government, and industry--everybody--to have input. They then come back with consensus on a recommendation.

[Glen Semenchuk]

That's correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

When you get back to the larger group, is that where you have the problem?

[Glen Semenchuk]

No. Before the new decision-making policy was put in place there were sometimes problems getting consensus at the subgroup. But to become more effective and limit the number of hours of volunteer time, if groups get to the point where they cannot reach a consensus, we encourage them to send it up to the next level. We have changed the decision-making policy so that on some of the process questions you don't require a consensus at the working group levels--more of a majority vote--and you pass the responsibility on to another level.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

Do you have one more short question?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I do.

One of your recommendations was for a higher level of help from the federal government for administration. When we were in Fort Chipewyan we had a concern with RAMP that there was a perception that industry and government had met ahead of time, made decisions, and then those decisions went to the larger group. That's not how it works, but that was the perception.

So if you have increased involvement, with the government providing administration, it might exacerbate that perception. Again it's government more involved providing.... It needs to be multi-stakeholder and hopefully get consensus. As you point out, the larger the group the more difficult it is to get consensus.

Thank you.

[Glen Semenchuk]

I think part of that request for help from the federal government relates to expertise. They do have a lot of expertise in a number of the areas we are operating in. We've asked the departments to provide that expertise to our working groups.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think we can do a two-minute round for the remaining members. I don't have any questions.

Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Semenchuk, for being here and for your presentation to us.

I have a couple of questions.

With respect to aboriginal community members of CEMA, you mentioned that originally there were six, three have left, and you have two new applications, which is encouraging to hear.

Are there other potential communities beyond the original six, plus the two? I'm not familiar enough with the number of aboriginal communities in the area. Are there other potential aboriginal communities that you could look to as potential members?

[Glen Semenchuk]

There are still a couple of Métis locals. There are no other first nations.