Evidence of meeting #21 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cema.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
So you still stand firm that there is no possibility of seepage from tailings ponds.
Manager, Environment, Canadian Natural Resources Ltd
No, I did not say that. There is seepage that will be there, but the amount that's indicated far exceeds what will actually occur.
As Ian Mackenzie indicated earlier, all things leak.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, I read that somewhere in a similar report, that with seepage the groundwater will be contaminated but it will still be usable. That what seems to be the language that comes out of these environmental assessments. Is that a correct characterization?
Manager, Environment, Canadian Natural Resources Ltd
Depending on where you sample it, yes.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay.
We'll now go to the Conservative Party.
Mr. Braid, go ahead please.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for the attendance of our company representatives today and for the presentations.
I just have a few questions to go through. If I have time left, I will share it with my colleague Mr. Watson.
Perhaps, if I could, my questions will follow the sequence of the presentations. I'll start with the Suncor presentation.
You indicated, Mr. Fordham, that to date you've already reduced water usage by about 30%, I believe. Looking at it in a future-oriented way, do you have a goal for further water reduction?
Manager, Strategy and Regional Integration, Suncor Energy Inc.
We have not set a specific goal at this point. We are looking into that at the moment, but we're still evaluating various projects that would reduce our water usage.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Okay.
With respect to the reclamation process, how do we speed that up? What are the methods? What are the ways that we can employ to speed up that process?
Manager, Strategy and Regional Integration, Suncor Energy Inc.
Reclamation is very much driven by the available land on which you can put your reclamation soils and vegetation. The largest areas on the mine sites that become available for those will be the tops of tailings ponds.
As the tailings dikes get constructed, generally they're reclaimed as we go forward. But those are relatively small areas compared with the size of the tops of the ponds. So, certainly, speeding up the time in which those ponds are infilled with a trafficable surface on which you can put reclamation materials will speed up reclamation.
The ERCB has recently come out with a new directive putting some new guidelines around how fast tailings ponds have to be reclaimed. So I think the speed is going to increase in the future.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Yesterday we had a representative from a company called Gradek Energy, which has a fascinating process, a new technology that will help deal with the issue of tailings ponds. There's a pilot project this fall. I've forgotten which company—
Liberal
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
In any event, this company has created, for all intents and purposes, through the use of nanotechnology, a bead that can be placed in the tailings ponds and act as a form of a magnet that attracts all of the bitumen in the tailings ponds and separates it from the water.
Are you familiar with that specific technology? Have you considered it? Is this something we could explore?
Manager, Environment, Canadian Natural Resources Ltd
Yes, we've actually met with them; many companies have. I have personally met with them to review that. We are in discussion with them right now to look at the potential of it. It's at that stage.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Okay, very good.
Are there any other comments from any other company representatives?
Manager, Strategy and Regional Integration, Suncor Energy Inc.
I guess I'd be the only other one, because they don't have tailings ponds.
Manager, Strategy and Regional Integration, Suncor Energy Inc.
My guess is that we've probably met with them as well. I don't have personal knowledge of that, but we're all constantly exploring new technologies.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Excellent.
With respect to the companies that are drawing and using saline water, I just want to understand that a bit more. You've indicated that saline water is hard to find, so these are groundwater sources of saline water.
Can you elaborate a little bit on how difficult that process is, and, if possible, the percentage of source water that is actually saline? Just help me understand this.
Senior Vice-President, ConocoPhillips Canada
The salinity of the aquifers varies significantly as you move across the Athabasca region and into Cold Lake and other areas. It's driven by the proximity to salt in the subsurface, and a whole load of other issues relating to the groundwater movement. So Devon and its Jackfish project can find saline water, which crosses the 4,000 TDS demarcation line. If it's 4,100, it's saline water; if it's 3,900, it's fresh water.
So as you move around the region and drill these water exploration wells, you find a significant amount of variability. It can vary from 1,500 to 15,000 or 40,000 in salinity.
Vice-President, Government and Public affairs, Devon Canada Corporation
I would just reinforce that. We had one well in particular that was hovering around that 4,000 level. Some days it might have been just under or over, and that's not good enough. We basically said we'd be above the 4,000 mark, and today we use 6,500 total dissolved solids. We're doing work to use even more saline water than that.
I don't know exactly how it is distributed, nor could I answer what the supply is, if that's what you were getting at. That question would probably have to go to some of the water experts.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Okay, very good. Thank you.
Mr. Wright, the THAI process is certainly a very intriguing and encouraging process. Monsieur Ouellet asked many of the questions I wanted to ask you, but perhaps I have one other question for you. What's your assessment at this point of the success of this process?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Petrobank Energy and Resources Ltd.
Our assessment is that it is fully successful. We've moved to a commercial-scale application and have actually expanded our project application to two new areas, which we'll be developing this year. We're also looking internationally at a variety of other heavy oil opportunities where we can apply the technology.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you.
I have a more general question to any or all of you. How do you determine what benchmarks or guidelines you use to determine what percentage of your profits are devoted to R and D? If that's proprietary, that's fine, but please indicate that.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Petrobank Energy and Resources Ltd.
I'll take a stab at that, just because we have an R and D division.
I hope through these hearings you reach the appreciation that our business is a constantly evolving one. It is at the leading edge of technology, and quite often the bleeding edge of technology, where new techniques don't always work as we'd hoped they would.
In general, up to 10% of our capital investment in any year goes to applying existing technologies or new technologies in novel ways to enhance our ability to extract oil and maximize the recoveries we can get from various reservoirs. It isn't just a bunch of scientists in white lab coats; it's guys on drilling rigs running new tools underground and testing new ideas. That is the hardcore R and D that we do.
Conservative