Environment Committee on Feb. 24th, 2009

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.

Are there any other comments on that item?

We'll go to Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I don't want to complicate matters, but it may well be that the report might be a joint finance and environment committee review. We've talked about the potential of that for some matters. We might want to talk about that at a steering committee meeting, but perhaps not at the first steering committee meeting.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Let us move on to the other items—the 2009 budget and travel.

[The Clerk]

I think you've already talked about it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We've talked about that.

Go ahead, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have a few other items here under item six, “other matters”, including carbon sequestration. That's very important.

Mr. Godfrey, Mr. Ouellet—I'm trying to think of who else—Nathan Cullen, and I went to Berlin and heard that the world is counting on carbon capture and storage to reduce approximately 25% of greenhouse gas emissions.

Canada is one of the world leaders in that technology. It's in our budget 2009. That may be something the committee wants to consider, because it is a very serious tool to fight climate change. We may want to plan a couple of meetings on it, and that's why I suggested that it be in there.

On travel, if we're going to be dealing with the oil sands and the impact on water, it's very important that you actually see it firsthand. But again, the steering committee will be dealing with that.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to find out if there's consensus so that we're using our meetings wisely and properly. This week we have our meeting schedule. Next week we have just the steering committee. I suggest that Tuesday, a week from today, we then hear from the steering committee and hopefully provide a meeting similar to this, but much more strategic, to agree with the recommendations or critique the recommendations of the steering committee. That would be Tuesday of next week.

Then on Thursday we could start with water. I'm just wondering if there is consensus among the committee members to start that next week.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

My sense is that there is, but if there isn't, now's the time to speak to that and our schedule for next week.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'll just respond.

On the carbon capture and sequestration issue, I agree with Mr. Warawa that we should hear more about it.

I understand there was a study released by the C.D. Howe Institute in the last three days that indicates that carbon capture and sequestration is one of the least efficient uses of taxpayers' dollars in terms of actually achieving GHG reductions. Sequestration turns out to be extraordinarily expensive, and of course it's not even technologically proven yet. There's so much research to be done.

So it would be important, Mr. Chair, for Canadians to learn about the status of that and to what extent it's promising or not. And if it is promising, let's hear more about it. If it's expensive compared with other forms of GHG reduction technologies, or energy efficiency measures, we should hear about that as well. So I think it would be an important subject to hear about.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Bigras?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Warawa seems to be saying that our study on the tar sands should include witnesses on carbon sequestration. I do not want there to be any misunderstandings here. I am not at all opposed to him suggesting witnesses who promote this technology. However, the steering committee should also consider the other side of the coin, in particular the suggestions Mr. McGuinty just made.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Fine. Are there any other questions or comments on carbon storage or gasification?

Let us now move on to the reports from the Environment Commissioner. There is a reference to follow-ups to these reports. Would you like the committee to do a more comprehensive study of a particular matter that the commissioner examined?

We are at the end of our agenda. Mr. McGuinty would like to add something.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Could I just make a suggestion, through you, Mr. Chair, to Mr. Warawa and to our analyst?

Is it also possible that we get, on a more regular basis and with advance notice, those appointments that are subject to review through this committee?

I'm prompted by the example of the national round table, which has 25 members. The clerk may remind us of this, but I always assumed that each and every member was appointed by the Prime Minister, and perhaps still is. But I don't know of the procedure after the round table was taken from PCO and put inside the Department of the Environment. I think it's now a ministerial OIC appointment, but I don't recall.

I don't even know if we have the full exposure here, as members, as to who is being appointed to what, and what appointment is subject to review. But it would be helpful for us to plan out who we should be seeing. I know that we are seeing the new associate deputy.

Can you help us with that?

[Penny Becklumb]

I don't get any more notice than you do. It comes through the clerk.

[The Clerk]

We do receive them, and we do send them out on a regular basis to members' offices electronically—because that's how we get them. I do put them on the agenda as future business, so you do have access to that information.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

But is it coming here as a matter of—

[The Clerk]

It's going to each member and then is placed on the agenda as future business as well, so it behoves the committee, or the subcommittee at least, to make a decision to invite or not invite those order-in-council appointments.

I'd like to point out that we do send a lot of information to members, so if you have any questions about information that we send you, I'd be more than happy to meet with your staff, so that they know they can flag these things.

I sometimes suspect, and I may be speaking out of line, that a lot of this information is simply discarded in members' offices, because it looks rather technical, as it's just a few lines. But if your staff ask questions, they surely can phone us and we'd be happy to sit down with them and say this is an order-in-council appointment and you should bring this to your member's attention, if you so wish, so they know what information is being provided.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Very good.

Are there any other items to be added to the agenda under "Other Business"?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I just have an open question for the government. If I could follow up with the analyst on the question of the appointments, could I make a suggestion that it be dealt with at the subcommittee?

I don't know what appointments are forthcoming. Through you, Mr. Chair, maybe Mr. Warawa could help us understand what appointments are forthcoming. He is a privy councillor. He is the parliamentary secretary to the minister who makes the appointments, or who vets the appointments through PMO. We often don't have notice of this until the appointments have been made.

[The Clerk]

Have been made, yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So I would make a suggestion for all of us. We may want to hear at all times from folks who are appointed to different jobs, just as a matter of opportunity, to find out more about them and their backgrounds and where they intend to take agencies like the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency or to pull any other organization out of a hat. So I would make a plea, Mr. Chair, that perhaps at the subcommittee that could be dealt with.

I'd like to ask something, Mr. Chair, as a point for open consideration. The President of the United States was here last week. There is a discussion starting between Canada and the United States on energy and environment. Certainly I don't have and I don't know if any other member here on any side of the House has any understanding yet of what that really means. Does the government intend to bring any of this to committee, in cooperation with the opposition parties?

I think there are ministers in Washington on different files. This is a good thing for Canada. We're strengthening our relationship with Washington. But on this particular file of environment and climate change, cap and trade, carbon pricing, and all of these things, is the government in a position to help us understand whether we can play a role in working cooperatively with the government to achieve the right outcome?

We have absolutely no knowledge of anything that's going on. Is that not a potential topic that Mr. Warawa may want to take up with his minister and find out whether we can be of help here at this committee?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's duly noted, and I believe it's noted by Mr. Warawa.

Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would concur with that request, and I just wanted to make sure that the review of CEAA and the review of any intended amendments to the deleterious substance provisions of the Fisheries Act be on that additional agenda.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Can you repeat that?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would ask that those be on the agenda for matters to review. I just want it clarified to make sure that the review of CEAA is on that list, to follow up.

Secondly, at the beginning of the meeting I had raised the issue of my understanding that amendments to the Fisheries Act related to deleterious substances may be coming forward, and that this should be on the list to inquire of the government. If so, if that's coming forward, then we need to fit that into our agenda of 22 days.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. That's noted. And of course you'll be at the meeting, so you can ensure this happens.

Mr. Woodworth, then Mr. Warawa.