Environment Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[Clinton Jacobs]

It was being proposed for destruction.

Basically we saw on Facebook that some landholders or individuals were trying to rally other individuals to destroy some habitat, and we were pretty concerned about that. I could see where they're coming from, because they're basically being told what they can or cannot do with their land.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

If they do destroy it or try to destroy it, that's a contravention of the act under subsection 97(1), because they're destroying critical habitat as to subsections 58(1), 60(1), and 61(1), so wouldn't--

[Clinton Jacobs]

Those are just proposed things. They were trying to rally some support to be able to go ahead with it.

Our question is, what will the government do, if they ever do...?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I wasn't aware of this. Did you notify authorities that this was on Facebook and that there are individuals who are suggesting actually going out and destroying critical habitat?

[Clinton Jacobs]

We don't have an office to be able to contact anyone. I mean, who do we contact? That's one of the things.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay. We'll raise it ourselves with Environment Canada.

With that, we're going to close off this round.

I want to thank our witnesses from Walpole Island, Councillor Johnson and Mr. Jacobs, and of course our witnesses from the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, Mr. MacPhee and Mr. McNeely. Thank you very much.

We'll suspend. I'll ask our NACOSAR guest to come to the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Order. We're back in session.

We're welcoming to the table Dean Holman, the coordinator of NACOSAR. Our witnesses from NACOSAR were a bit of a moving target for us over the past week, so we do appreciate your making it in. We received a copy of your presentation. We're looking forward to your presentation.

You have 10 minutes.

[Dean Holman, Coordinator, National Aboriginal Council on Species at Risk (NACOSAR)]

Thank you.

I am the new coordinator, hired in March of this year, for the National Aboriginal Council on Species at Risk. I have been asked to appear on behalf of former chair and current council member Beverley Jacobs, who sends her regrets, and I have also been given permission to speak on behalf of NACOSAR by the current chair, Chief Bill Erasmus, who also sends his regrets.

On behalf of the National Aboriginal Council on Species at Risk, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development for organizing this meeting and accepting our submission on the five-year review of the Species at Risk Act.

I realize this is an opportunity to provide input for the legislative review. However, my speaking points support recommendation two and provide an explanation of NACOSAR's administration, which has been brought to light by numerous witnesses in the five-year review.

There has been confusion on membership and participation as a result of the March 1, 2010, termination date on the appointment letter from the minister, which has made it very difficult to reach quorum with the council. In turn, this has compounded issues surrounding solidarity and further challenges the need for meaningful and timely solutions.

On March 29 and April 9 of this year, NACOSAR met and discussed council membership and ministerial appointments. The chair requested the opinion of Environment Canada's director of conservation service delivery and permitting, Mary Taylor, on the matter and it was confirmed under precedent that the council should remain intact and continue business as usual until the minister appoints or reappoints council members.

On April 9 of this year, our submission to the standing committee was briefly discussed, and it was decided amongst participating members that the council would submit a historical document appended to our submission and recommendations that were agreed upon in camera by the council in September 2009. Appendix I has not been circulated to the standing committee today because it is still being translated.

Since September 2009, the council has not formally met to finalize their submission in full, resulting in a historical document and current recommendations. Further to this, the council has not been able to recruit and retain an appropriate coordinator, which is the only full-time position dedicated to maintaining the council's profile and administration. This has disabled the council in its capacity to review and incorporate recommendations from aboriginal peoples who attended workshops facilitated for the purpose of gathering recommendations and creating dialogue on the administration of the Species at Risk Act, which has caused issues regarding our credibility amongst aboriginal organizations and others.

As the NACOSAR coordinator, I will be working with the council to introduce in-house solutions to rebuild current capacity in maintaining consistency, which will include planning ahead by revising the current work plan to provide more detail and align it with our funding; an official distribution list; communication mechanisms to increase NACOSAR visibility; engagement and cooperation with partners to the act; monthly council meetings, including financial statements; finalizing our terms of reference; finalizing our policy and procedures manual; and provision of training and orientation to the council and planning subcommittee on their roles and responsibilities.

However, this does not fully address the issue of turnover of administration and the short terms of council membership. In order to maintain momentum of the council, the members need longer terms and criteria on selection of candidates to assist the minister in the appointment process, along with multi-year funding accompanied by a multi-year work plan.

Further to that, the council has requested to meet with the current Minister of the Environment on more than one occasion, without a response from the minister or his advisers. As an advisory council to the minister under the act, this makes it very difficult for the council to operate in accordance with section 8.1 of SARA.

Having reviewed the Species at Risk Act and measured the lack of engagement and participation of aboriginal peoples in the administration of the act, and the lack of NACOSAR engagement with SARA partners, the council has come to the conclusion that the act has failed to ensure participation, engagement, and advice from aboriginal peoples who are proactively involved in prevention, identification, management, protection, and recovery of wildlife species.

In an effort to assist the Government of Canada in improving the substantive provisions of the act and strengthening its implementation, the council offers the following recommendations.

Please refer to recommendations one, two, and three.

I would like to thank the standing committee for this opportunity. The floor is yours.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I believe everybody has a copy of the recommendations and the executive summary that was circulated in both official languages.

Ms. Duncan has a point of order.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I noted in their brief that they referenced the 2006 Stratos report that was not provided to us. I would ask that the report be provided to all the members of the committee so that in our deliberations we can take a close look at it. I managed to get part of it myself and I'll be asking questions, but I think it's important that all members see that report.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I believe the Stratos report has been circulated to the members already. It was in the government binder that came out when we first started the SARA review. It's in the original binder that went out to committee members.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Was that before Christmas?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Yes. It was in May 2009, a year ago. But you have it some place--hopefully in your office.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would just encourage that it be reviewed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Now we'll have one seven-minute round.

Mr. McGuinty, please kick us off.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Holman, for being here.

When did you start this position?

[Dean Holman]

Officially it was April 1, but I actually started March 15.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I was struck by some comments that I didn't completely understand: you made some comments about NACOSAR appointments and repeated requests to meet with the minister; that there are vacancies; and that NACOSAR's credibility with aboriginal communities has been seriously weakened. I suspect your power to convene them to participate has been weakened.

I'm struck, because in the brief we received from SARAC--another advisory body--it tells us that in 2008 the mandatory ministers' round table was not inclusive and not transparent. In fact, they went on to say that some members of SARAC didn't even know there was a 2008 round table being conducted. That set off alarm bells in my mind about whether or not the good folks who sit on SARAC are actually being meaningfully consulted--and even made aware of it.

Now you're saying that another equally important advisory group to the minister isn't really even functional.

How many appointments do you have right now? Are there normally six?

[Dean Holman]

That's correct. We have the chair, Chief Bill Erasmus; council member Beverley Jacobs; John Hanikenne; and Roger Gallant. We also have Larry Carpenter, but I haven't been able to secure his participation.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Has he given up?

[Dean Holman]

That's basically what it comes down to, yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

He doesn't take it seriously.

[Dean Holman]

Larry has taken NACOSAR very seriously and has taken a very proactive approach; however, the dysfunction that has been going on for the last year and a half has basically caused him to lose faith in--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's not that he doesn't take NACOSAR seriously; he presumably doesn't take either the government or the minister seriously, which led him to.... We won't explore this any further. I don't want to get into finger pointing.

I just want to get a sense of your funding. What's your budget?

[Dean Holman]

I believe the budget is $650,000 for NACOSAR.