Environment Committee on May 13th, 2010

[A voice]

More good news.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

More good news, actually, yes.

Actually, I did have a question. I noticed this note in paragraph 4.54 of your report, Ms. Fraser: Environment Canada currently conducts limited monitoring of weather, climate, water, stratospheric ozone, and air quality throughout the North, including the [Northwest Territories].... Some of these national programs provide data for assessing cumulative impact.

Are these ongoing monitoring programs?

[Sheila Fraser]

I'll ask Mr. Vaughan to respond, Chair.

[Scott Vaughan]

Thank you.

We noted in that chapter--and I think my colleague from Environment Canada noted it as well--that there are ongoing monitoring programs--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Right. Very good.

[Scott Vaughan]

--across Canada. Let me also say that we have noted in a chapter we presented to Parliament last year, for example the severe weather chapter, that there is scarce coverage in the north on both air quality and weather warnings--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes. I remember that well. I recall that the department was in fact working on introducing new systems and continuing to expand its network. So from the point of view of our discussion today, though, and the issue of cumulative impact, I regard it as good news. Although improvements can yet be made, ongoing monitoring is still occurring.

As to the improvements, the $8 million in good news from budget 2010 that we were speaking about before, which, I'm reminded, both the Liberals and the NDP voted against, that's a two-year program to provide some stability of funding, is it, Mr. Borbey?

[Patrick Borbey]

This is incremental funding and of course it's still subject to parliamentary approval. We also need to go to Treasury Board to determine the terms and conditions under which the funding will be spent.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

We'll cross our fingers and hope that the opposition assists us with the parliamentary approval.

I had the understanding that in budget 2010 there was $11 million over two years devoted to streamlining the northern regulatory process. Are you aware of that and can you tell us if it will help your department to respond to some of the issues the Auditor General and the commissioner have raised?

[Patrick Borbey]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The funding that was announced by the minister last week will certainly support dealing with a lot of the recommendations we've received over the years, including the recommendations from the Auditor General going back to 2005, as well as the recommendations of the McCrank report from two years ago.

That money is going to go towards changes in legislation, the negotiations in terms of restructuring or consolidation, and moving forward with other improvements to the regulatory regimes in the north. Again, the details are still subject to approval in terms of what specific investments will be made.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Excellent.

I just want to clarify a point with the Auditor General and/or the commissioner. While I can clearly see that there is work to be done in establishing a more systematic approach to the land claims processes, in scanning your report, the major issue I saw arising from the lack of a systematic approach was that there were delays in granting permits and approvals because of consultation issues.

I may have seen one small issue where there was some environmental consequence, but since we're in the environment committee, I just wanted to make sure that you weren't looking for or you didn't find issues where the lack of a systematic approach had actually contributed to any environmental damage. That is, if I stated that question correctly....

[Sheila Fraser]

It is correct that the major issue we are raising here is consultation, which has either delayed or, in fact, in some cases negated development projects going forward. We did not specifically assess whether there has been environmental damage. We were not made aware of any that occurred. But it's not something that we would have actually gone out to look for.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

It's what I thought. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an environmental red flag out there that we should be looking for. I'm glad you've confirmed there isn't.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Woodworth.

Mr. Watson, you're going to clean up the floor with the last question on the second round.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair--I think.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You're welcome.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I want to start first with a comment regarding the $8 million for community-based environmental monitoring in our budget--subject to the approval of the budget, of course.

I did want to correct my colleague Mr. Woodworth. There were three parties that voted against that funding. I would go further to suggest or note that they offered no amendment to our budget to suggest that either that amount or any other investment should be otherwise, Mr. Chair.

To go to the report itself, I think the most noted concern with respect to the environmental regulatory system in the report revolves around areas of the Northwest Territories without comprehensive land claims agreements, if I understand it correctly.

I noted with interest, Mr. Borbey, in the responses from INAC, the caveat about settling land claims. Does this mean that authorities for co-management, land use planning, and monitoring flow only from comprehensive land claims agreements? Or do those authorities for that type of management exist in areas without comprehensive land claims agreements?

[Patrick Borbey]

They exist throughout the territory, but they are certainly a creation of the land claim settlement process. The MVRMA, the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and also the legislation that applies in the Inuvialuit region are directly the result of settlement of land claims.

As in the case of the Yukon, where even if there are some first nations that have not settled their claims or moved to self-government, there is a co-management regime that applies for the whole territory.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yet the report highlights a number of conflicts, shall we say, that arise from a lack of certainty, notwithstanding existing mechanisms. Is a comprehensive land claim agreement the only way to achieve greater certainty, or can it be achieved by other mechanisms where you already have legislative authority?

[Patrick Borbey]

That's a basic policy question, and the government's inherent right policy does put an emphasis on settlement of comprehensive land claims and moving forward with self-government where it's possible and warranted. So that is the policy, and that is the best way, from our perspective, to ensure certainty.

Certainly, reviewing regulatory regimes and legislative regimes and making sure they meet the highest standard is also a way to improve on certainty.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I would submit perhaps, then, that this report is really at its base an urgent call for settling remaining land claims to provide final certainty with respect to environmental regulatory systems. Would all panellists agree with that?

Fair enough. Okay.

That's all, Mr. Chair.

[An hon. member]

For the record, the answer is yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes. For the record, the answer was yes, by all panellists.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Watson.

We do have time for a third round of five minutes for each party.

Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Fraser, can I go to bullet point 6 of your presentation? You say, “Let me now turn to our examination of the environmental regulatory system. You talk about the fragility of the northern ecosystems being greater than that of those in the south. You say. “There are also profound changes taking place in the North as a result of climate change and...long-range transport of air pollutants”, and so on.

In your audit of what you call “sustaining development” as opposed to “sustainable development” of the Northwest Territories, did you examine the state of science being conducted by the federal government to underpin precisely your examination of the environmental regulatory system?