Evidence of meeting #31 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was right.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
That's good enough: 20 years is the longest.
What is the most number of parties that you've observed being engaged in a piece of environmental litigation?
4:35 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
That would be in India. Are you more interested in Canada?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
I couldn't say. I guess it was probably the Oldman dam litigation at the Supreme Court, but that's because pretty much every province and territory and about five industry groups--let's say a dozen, maybe 12 to 15--were involved in it.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Do you have any notion of what would be the customary cost that each of those parties would likely expend in order to participate?
4:35 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
It would depend a lot on the type of case and how high up the appeal level it went.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
Well, going to the Supreme Court is actually relatively inexpensive because there's no evidence that you--
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
From the trial up...from the start, I would say that if it were simply a judicial review...so these will typically be cases that would be judicial review types of actions, and--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
Sure.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
Ballpark? Sure.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
Sure. If it were just.... Let's say something went to trial and appeal level, so two levels of court. Normally they would be under $100,000, but they're often over $50,000.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Can you tell me, before we go to a U.S-style litigious approach that might skew priorities in the interests of individual litigants and incur costs and delays, are you aware of other effective measures to achieve progress in environmental protection?
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
Sure. I guess I would start by saying that I don't think Quebec, Ontario, the Yukon, and NWT would agree this is a U.S.-style approach, but--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
But the bill of course goes far beyond the Quebec, Ontario, and Yukon approaches.
But let's not go back to that. We've already covered it--
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
It doesn't, really. The right to sue in Quebec is probably stronger than this--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
The question really is, what other effective ways to achieve progress in environmental protection can you make us aware of?
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
I would say the single most important thing we could do would be to put a price on carbon.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
All right, and so that involves more stringent regulation?
4:40 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Associate Director, Institute of the Environment, As an Individual
No, it doesn't involve regulation. It involves taking something that imposes a real cost on society and actually requiring those who impose that cost to pay the true cost they create. So actually, it involves fixing what Milton Friedman called the single greatest market failure that exists.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative