Evidence of meeting #37 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
It is not up to you to rule on the point of order. It is up to the chairperson.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Order!
I think we are into debate here over what the witnesses' testimony was. We never had the Canadian hydroelectric association here; we had the Canadian Electrical Association here.
Or no, was it...?
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Yes.
At any rate, we're on debate, and everybody can have their chance to debate those facts.
I have Mr. Blaney and then Mr. Woodworth.
It had better be on a point of order.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
Absolutely.
Thank you for giving me the floor, Mr. Chair.
I sit next to my colleague and I can hardly hear him because the people on the other side keep interrupting him. I believe that the points raised are not points of order but rather matters of debate relating to our interpretation of the witnesses testimony.
I want to underline, Mr. Chair, that it is quite appropriate for the parliamentary secretary, after having heard all the witnesses, to summarize his interpretation of their testimony in the context of the important motion he has tabled this afternoon.
Thank you very much.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you.
My comments are similar to those of Mr. Blaney. I wasn't here for the evidence that was referred to, although I've seen the written submissions the witnesses made.
However, it seems to me that in the course of a committee hearing, when we hear voluminous evidence from multiple witnesses, there will inevitably be some differences in recall and note-taking about what was said or not said. I think the members opposite are perfectly entitled, when their turn comes to speak, to try to refute the recollection—or, as Mr. Blaney says, the interpretation—of evidence that Mr. Warawa is proposing.
I agree with Mr. Blaney that it doesn't seem to be a matter where Mr. Warawa should be stopped from speaking just because the members opposite happen to disagree with what he's saying.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I have Monsieur Bigras next.
And let's stick to points of order, because we are getting into debate. All of you guys can get on the speakers list to debate these issues. Other than interruptions here, I don't hear a point of order.
Monsieur Bigras.
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
First of all, Mr. Chair, you should remind the member for Lévis—Bellechasse, who has not been long on this committee, that it is not up to him but to you to rule on he points of order. Had he wanted to have this role, he should have put his name up for chairing the committee but he did not get the support of his own party.
That being said, Mr. Chair, I believe that when one...
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Make your point of order, and then it will be Mr. Blaney's turn.
Go ahead.
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Indeed, I would encourage the parliamentary secretary to read the witnesses' testimony. It is true that some witnesses, such as the Shipping Federation of Canada, said that the bill should be put aside. However, some others, especially those he is quoting, said that they want some restrictions and amendments. Our responsibility as parliamentarians is to amend the bill and not to behave as the government did in the Senate when they decided not to study a bill on climate change and killed it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
We're getting way off track here. Let's get back to debate. Anyone who wants to can get their name on the speakers list.
Mr. Blaney, and Mr. Woodworth, we're just into debate. I agree that if it's debate, it should be handled through normal speaking processes.
I'm going to turn it back to Mr. Warawa. I've heard enough on this point of order, unless there are some new ones.
Other than that, I'm going to turn it back to Mr. Warawa.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I think we established a few moments ago that we ought to speak respectfully to one another. I heard Mr. Blaney say nothing about the fact that he could determine what's a point of order and what's not. I only heard him make his submissions to the chair. I'm very surprised to hear my colleague across the way make a personal attack against Mr. Blaney, suggesting that somehow Mr. Blaney was taking on, himself, the right to rule on this rather than doing what he did, which was simply to make a submission on the question.
I think my friend across the way, being a fair man, if he thought about it, would apologize for that attack on Mr. Blaney's character and approach.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
--because I think we're splitting hairs here.
Mr. Warawa, you have the floor.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I actually want to thank Mr. Bigras, because no matter how he said it, the end result was that I was able to find that quote and was able to read it, and even his invitation to read this into the record. So again, I want to thank him for that interruption.
Of course, we had a one-hour interruption in the House by the Bloc, taking us off track and not working on what we were supposed to be doing. They, through mischief, caused a vote in the House, and now I get to have time to be prepared and share this.
In the testimony—this is recorded in the blues—Mr. Matthew Firth said:
We have members in all provinces, none of the territories but all provinces, including Quebec, hydro workers, health care workers, municipal workers throughout the province of Quebec. I'm not exactly sure how many members in Quebec.
Mr. Ouellet asked a question. Then I raised a point of order and said:
I couldn't quite hear. Did the witness say that he represents people in Hydro-Québec?
To which Mr. Ouellet said:
Yes. Listen well and you will hear.
It's not a point of order because he's not listening.
And the chair said:
I think there's a problem with translation.
Very clearly we heard from Mr. Matthew Firth, with Canadian hydro association, and we heard from Mr. Ouellet, saying that he represents Hydro-Québec.