Environment Committee on Nov. 24th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The rules under Standing Order 115(5) are as follows:

Notwithstanding Standing Orders 108(1)(a) and 113(5), the Chair of a standing, special, legislative or joint committee shall suspend the meeting when the bells are sounded to call in the Members to a recorded division, unless there is unanimous consent of the members of the committee to continue to sit.

I have rules that I must follow. The vote is in half an hour, so bells are ringing. We are off the Hill, so we do have to go to vote.

Do I have unanimous consent to continue?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I don't have unanimous consent. We're suspended until after the votes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, we're back in order. We have about an hour left.

We have a motion from Mr. Warawa.

Can you read it into the record and move it?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), and after concluding hearings, the Committee recommends that the House of Commons do not proceed further with Bill C-469, An Act to establish a Canadian Bill of Rights, because the Bill:

will enable any resident of Canada to challenge any regulatory standard, at any time, thereby trumping the existing regulatory process, creating regulatory and investment unpredictability;

will encroach on areas of provincial environmental jurisdiction;

does not allow for the balance of the Social, Economic and Environmental pillars of Sustainable Development;

overlaps with aspects of existing Federal legislation and policies which give rise to redundancy or conflict;

removes numerous safeguards which ensure that environmental rights do not overwhelm government capacity and judicial resources.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay. You can speak to it.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you.

We had testimony, primarily at the beginning, from those who helped the NDP write this bill--which we questioned: to what extent did they help Ms. Duncan write the bill, and what was that motive?

Chair, we were surprised to hear from everyone but the NGOs that this was a bad bill, a dangerous bill. It would create uncertainty throughout industry and could retroactively remove all existing permits.

We heard that it could jeopardize the existence of Hydro-Québec and its operations. We heard from shipping. We heard from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. We heard from legal experts. The common theme, other than from the NGOs that we heard, was that the bill was not redeemable and should not go forward.

Some of the legal input we heard from the witnesses is incorporated into the motion. Actually, most of what we heard is incorporated in it. So it's relevant and I think the motion is very appropriate.

We also heard, Chair, that Ontario and Quebec already have legislation for an environmental bill of rights. Their legislation does have some restrictions so that there is what people in Quebec and people in Ontario believe to be a balanced approach for an environmental bill of rights.

The concern with the coalition bill now...and I call it a coalition bill, Chair, because unfortunately, every member of the coalition supports this bill--shockingly, even the Bloc members.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

On a point of order, I just don't think it's helpful to use that language.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Monsieur Bigras, were you raising your hand on that point of order?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I do not believe that we are here to impugn the motives of the member. We would appreciate however if he could speak to the motion, which is the first item we have two discuss. This should be done in a civilized manner. I believe that the parliamentary secretary should make his points respectfully, without impugning anyone's motives.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'll just say that we do try to keep things here such that we're not attacking people's integrity. There have been rules Speaker that we do not want to demean people's reputations. It's all right to make a partisan comment, but I don't appreciate anything that would shed a negative light on anybody's integrity.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

If any member of the coalition feels that their integrity has been attacked, I apologize for that. There was no intent at all. I admire each of the members across the way. I think they're dedicated politicians expressing the position of each of the governments within the coalition.

But I'm very concerned that they have--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Murray has a point of order.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

On a point of order--

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm speaking to the point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

No, you're--

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I'm speaking to the point of order, Chair. That's what's on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You sounded like you were going back to your debate.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

No, I'm speaking to the point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Finish your point of order, and then I'll bring on Ms. Murray.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, I do not want to cut down any of my colleagues across the way. I'm very concerned...and that's why I've used the word “coalition”, which is what I believe it is. Not to individually demean anybody here, but it's a coalition that's voted--all the opposition members have voted--in favour of Bill C-469 and have defended the text of Bill C-469, which includes a text that could very seriously jeopardize Quebec's hydroelectric. It could jeopardize the oil sands.

So I think the term “coalition” is deserved in that it's not derogatory, it's a fact, and it raises a lot of concerns not only on this side of the table, Chair, but also with Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We'll go to Ms. Murray on that point of order, and then Ms. Duncan and Mr. Woodworth.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Given the chair's request for respectful language, my view is that Mr. Warawa was out of order in continuing to use the word “coalition”. I'd just like to suggest he use the words “the majority of the members of this committee” instead.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'll let you guys speak to this.

Ms. Duncan, you had your hand up on this point of order.